Hester Diamond Sothebys auction

[M|X|Y]

Originally Posted by brooklyndust

There is a reoccurring story with art, fame and pop culture and generally success. We all love the story of the person with the last $12 in their pocket sleeping in the back of their car. But on a closer look there are a lot of artists who have had some huge advantages that the others don't; Ben Stiller / Jerry Stiller, Anthony Kiedis and his babysitter Cher, Maya Rudolph / Minnie Riperton, Rashida Jones / Quincy Jones, Drake's uncle was in Sly and The Family Stone.

Dwayne The Rock Johnson
...
But I think it's an important thing to note that not everyone had some of the advantages they were privy to i.e. having free studio access to record Cookie Puss because their parents friends were returning a favour. Knowing the right people to talk to or how to conduct themselves in those circles* when talking to those people. i.e. During the making of Paul's Boutique, Mike D casually mentioning to Joe Smith, the CEO of Capital Records "You bought a Brach from my father"

Not taking away from their talent and integrity but just another layer to their story that I have started to recognize that sometimes might be overlooked.
...
Mike or the rest of the band has never really flaunted their affluence.

Absolutely. I have always respected their modesty. They're definitely down to earth dudes who always seemed to understand that their success is due to a combination of talent and work but also luck, timing and certain privileges. Who HASN'T wished to be the kid of wealthy parents. They could've done much less with themselves and brought nothing to the world, so I'm happy they lived the way they did.

*Holy motherfuck is that true and mostly overlooked. Practice makes perfect and sometimes you only get one shot.

Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot

It also doesn't appear that their money (or lack thereof) had a huge direct impact on their success in the music biz. They had the instinct/luck to gravitate towards Rick Reuben. Had that not happened they probably wouldn't have made it very far in hip hop despite their raw talent.

It doesn't appear that way, but it's a lot easier to let go and follow your heart when in the back of your mind you know family'$ got your back. RR, an NYU kid from well off family, needed them as much as they needed him. They were all better off as a group.

Originally Posted by tuc70021

It crossed my mind that if I wasn't working every day after school from age 14 on my family and I probably would have just died of exposure.
...
But anyway, I'm glad their parents had their shit together enough to give those dudes the time and resources to become my favorite band.

Originally Posted by balohna

Yeah, even just having the money to go out. At that age I was lucky to have like $20 in my pocket that I could spend freely. I don't know what the prices were like at NYC clubs in the early 80s, but I doubt they were partying every night for free. I remember there being kind of a rift at a certain age where kids start going out more (for me this was around 18, so I had more than $20... maybe like $200 in the bank), when I had to say no to a lot of my friends because I didn't have the disposable income they had. Or I'd say yes and next thing I know I have like $5 to my name.

I remember this rift around this age too. Just getting around was a pain in the a$$. I definitely missed out on a LOT of fun from not having money or having to work.

It felt like the kids with money didn't need to think of their futures as seriously. Letting go and "enjoying" their youth came at a lower cost in the sense that being carefree isn't as easy when you know there is no safety net. Having encouraging and $upportive parents vs parents constantly brow beating you into making something of yourself. Or no parents. These things make a huge difference. Even if they weren't actually spending parents' money, just the absence of the kind of stress that struggling families go through is an invisible but very real advantage.

Originally Posted by 3stooges

It's the artist and the art itself that matters, and not where it came from or what happened beforehand.

Everyone agrees on that - the point is that it's a lot harder to 'become an artist' or to get out there for most vs the ones you've heard of.

Originally Posted by brooklyndust

I think it's just an important thing to note, especially for younger artist just starting out. Tell them the whole story to set expectations but not squash dreams.

I think kids should learn this too. Nowadays there are so many accessible ways to make art, it's totally possible to just make things for the love of it. It's just a fact that you see more successful people that come from privilege in the arts, as opposed to say, mechanics or even doctors. It's almost like telling a short person they can be the next Michael Jordan. Sure, it's possible and there have been short players, but it's just highly unlikely. Right now pro basketball is a game dominated by tall people. It just is.

There are many more attainable paths to happiness and $uccess. Shit, look at the lady the thread is about. Plus - we need like ten new good singers a year. Tops.

Originally Posted by BeesTea

I think what DID help the 3 is they each had at least one parent who was in an artistic field. Perhaps their parents were more accepting of following one’s dreams vs going to college at 17 and 4 years later be ready to embark on a lucrative, safe career.

Yeah, it could even be that we got what we got from them as artists BECAUSE their parents were creatively encouraging. Not everything is about money. My parents were also creative types. These influences are also privileges vs kids who dont have them. They had great parents that provided high-level exposure to things that made them who they are to us.


I imagine MCA's architect pop may've exposed him to things that had something to do with his technical and design abilities, and all those contributions to the band.

I imagine that Adrock's theater dad and artist mom had something to do with his humor, his outgoing and performative talents.

I imagine Mike's exposure to his parents' art and work had something to do with his to eclectic musical taste and abilities, eye for design and being the first entrepreneur among them.


Anyway, I liked this thread and wrote too much. In the end we are what we eat and milk does a body good.



PPPS: The comments on the nyt article dust posted above really are worth the read. She seemed like a very cool person, a life well lived: "Ms. Diamond said in 2017 they were motivated to acquire art solely by “the excitement of seeing it, and falling in love with it, and buying it. It was always all about love.”. Clear influence

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Wow, the Beasties stuff sold for huge bucks! It's all going to charity. Very cool.

[3stooges]

Originally Posted by M|X|Y

Everyone agrees on that - the point is that it's a lot harder to 'become an artist' or to get out there for most vs the ones you've heard of.

Yeah, I agree, more opportunity, of course. But I think, especially in certain genres, we see a disproportionately high success rate for people of lesser privilege, as compared too "non-creative" pursuits. A lot of times, kids from money don't have much to say, literally, or creatively.

There could be different kinds of privilege. A poor kid that grows up going to a church that just happens to have a bunch of dope musicians playing there, and they let him hang around the church and play all the instruments 24/7. He's not financially rich, but in other ways, his life certainly is.

[brooklyndust]

Originally Posted by BeesTea

All of this is conjecture on my part so it’s just my two cents.


Agreed for the whole thread. That is all any of us are doing here, speculating and stating opinions, unless any of us knew them personally, then we don’t really know. And even if you did know them well, you still might not really know the full story. 



But from the Sothebys site they linked this. Which I only skimmed the first part. 

But it does mention how one of Mike’s ancestors came over from Europe and was one of the rare educated ones from that village and then became a banker, but then lost all work during the great depression, but so did everyone else. But if you check the family history, they have a few generations of some cashflow. 
 



Originally Posted by M|X|Y

Anyway, I liked this thread and wrote too much.





Same here. To quote a comment from the New York Times article. “The more I learn about the background of the Beasties the more interesting they become.”


I think that’s why I have been hanging on these boards for, holy shit, 18 years! That is just dawning on me now. Almost 20 years with some of you people….
“Same faces every day but you don't know their names”


I keep coming back and one of the main draws is that I find the band incredibly interesting. 

Learning about their individual personal lives is another fascinating level that I wish they delved into more with the book. I would buy and read their individual biographies, but as Ad-Rock said in the book “that’s a stuff for my personal memoirs. Which I just set on fire in my bathtub” so I don’t think that will ever come to fruition. Which I 100% understand. They have always seemed to keep their guard up when discussing their immediate family, and who could blame them? Especially in these times. And on that I hope it’s not too weird (probably is) or disrespectful that we are doing a deep dive on this thread.

Originally Posted by BeesTea

it seems as if the the 2 Adams came from more middle-class backgrounds. While I am sure Israel Horowitz was comfortable as a relatively well-known playwright.


Which is the other side of the coin especially when looking at artists from the outside. A lot of people who are not in the arts sometimes have a big misconception about what artists actually get paid. 

Sure Israel Horovitz is hailed as “the most-produced American playwright in French theatre history”

But that doesn’t necessarily translate to monetary success (although I think it might have in this case). I have met artists who I thought would be loaded but were not, and there are ones that I have never heard of who were. 



but, to your point and


Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot

Also remember that Adrock's mother was renting out a room (presumably to make ends meet).


I also got the impression that Ad-Rock was probably the least privileged of the three. 



Another thought I just realized as I’m typing this. A weird connection is that Mike lost his Dad and Horovitz lost his Mom around the same time. And now Mike just lost his Mom and Horovitz lost his Dad around the same time.

Originally Posted by BeesTea

I have also read that some of their friends were very good at inking fake handstamps so they could get into venues. I always assumed it was because of an minimum age issue but maybe it was also to avoid cover charges.





I’m sure that was part of it but more so and to quote the book:

“the drinking age in New York was eighteen and never enforced, you could be thirteen and get into a club no problem"

”

Walking up to the Danceteria: “will you get in? You’re only sixteen but for whatever reason, the doorman Haoui Montaug, likes you, so you slide in” 

“At the Danceteria, there was this really cool relationship between us kids and these slight older grown-ups. And being aging able to go to this place felt like a privilege. I mean shit…. They’d let us in (for free, no less)”



And the inspiration of Egg Raid on Mojo:
”Mojo was the doorman who worked at a few downtown clubs. Sometimes he would let us in for free and sometimes he would not”



I don’t think it was the money that got them into the clubs but more that they were gifted with charisma and charm that helped them with obtaining those opportunities. Whether that was genetically inherited or something they picked up from being around artistic parents. Probably a little bit of both.

 Which brings up

Originally Posted by BeesTea

I think what DID help the 3 is they each had at least one parent who was in an artistic field. Perhaps their parents were more accepting of following one’s dreams





Originally Posted by M|X|Y

Yeah, it could even be that we got what we got from them as artists BECAUSE their parents were creatively encouraging.





Yup, plus the incubating environment that New York was at the time:

“If we had grown up almost anywhere else in the world, our crew wouldn’t have had such a steady flow of amazing events that we could go to, unaccompanied by parents. First of all in other cites you had to dive to shows, which automatically meant a parent. And second, because all of our parents were Artis or intellectuals, they gave us an unusual amount of of freedom. It was still kind the ‘70s, in terms of parenting. My mom had certain time structures, like, you know, I could be out late on a weeknight. And I had to be clear about where I was and where I was going. But her basic attitude was, if your school work didn’t suffer, you do whatever you want. If it does, we have a problem. Everybody in our inner crew had parents that were, in one way or the other, similarly lenient”


so 


Originally Posted by 3stooges

There could be different kinds of privilege. A poor kid that grows up going to a church that just happens to have a bunch of dope musicians playing there, and they let him hang around the church and play all the instruments 24/7.





And they had the privilege of financial security with being surrounded by artists.

NYT article: 

“There were all these artists and art historians and characters from the New York City art world that would permeate most evenings of our lives,” Mr. Diamond recalled. “There were some pretty strongly opinionated folks in that room. So it always seemed completely normal to both my brothers and I that you’d have an opinion about everything. We had a family motto: ‘Often wrong, never in doubt.’”



And comment:



“Not to take away from Mike D nor his parent’s taste in art, but few - regardless of talent - are so fortunate to have the time, security, and opportunity. I am happy that he has done good by it. “

Which they indeed did:

Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot

Mike posted on Instagram about the auction.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKmEQPfM...=14tywjz4ope2d



In which Mike says:

 “I was never comfortable holding onto or looking at these awards/accolades that we got through the years. Don’t get me wrong - I’m appreciative of them, it’s just not something I need to look at.

Which answers the question 



Originally Posted by tuc70021

“Seems really weird that Mike is selling his gold and platinum records. I'm a big collector, but even I wouldn't really want to pay that much for them. Seems like they'd have way more sentimental value to the person who actually made the records…”





With 


Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot

“Wow, the Beasties stuff sold for huge bucks! It's all going to charity.”




“Come on party people share up your stacks" No one can deny that they just don't talk the talk, they walk the walk.

All this reaffirms

Originally Posted by M|X|Y

I have always respected their modesty. They're definitely down to earth dudes who always seemed to understand that their success is due to a combination of talent and work but also luck, timing and certain privileges.





NYT article comment:

“I have noticed it’s people who are born on third base acting like they hit a triple that stirs up resentment — especially in conjunction with gatekeeping and punching down to hoard opportunities.

Thankfully there are a lot people who are the opposite. Even if they don’t remove barriers, they root for the underdog.”

Couldn't agree more.

Originally Posted by M|X|Y

I think kids should learn this too. Nowadays there are so many accessible ways to make art, it's totally possible to just make things for the love of it.


Which brings up one of my favourite quotes on art: 
“Love the art in yourself,*not yourself in the art” - Konstantin Stanislavski



And from the band 

“we try not to take ourselves too seriously…"

Overall they have always seemed genuinely surprised by their own success.

And 



“Y’all sucked since brass monkey” 



But in the end they have always acknowledged how lucky they were/are



“The odds are stacked for those who lack I been a lucky motherfucker when it comes to that”



And you can't front on that

[easy 3]

The Mike stands for Money and the D is for Diamonds...