Vaccine Nation

[HAL 9000]

Originally Posted by fucktopgirl

You guys are stuck on doctor wakefield. This is just one case of bollocks.

True – but it is the case on which the whole anti-vac campaign is based. There is no other study that I am aware of supporting an autism/vaccine link.

Originally Posted by fucktopgirl

Because of the title of the website. OK then, no need to discuss here anymore if you are not able to debate information i put here.

How can you seriously write that? How can say I did not address the info in your last two links – I did but I will repost it below for clarity!!!!!!!

That is not to say that there is not interesting material in these articles. The first accurately reports that Japan banned the MMR in 1993 because the strain of Mumps used was too virulent.

The UK also banned this MMR but instead replaced it with a less virulent version and did not have the problems experienced in Japan – you will note that in all cases the country responded by ensuring the populations safety, shows the controls work. No cover-up, no denial, no big pharma corruption - just fixing the problem as soon as its identified.

Perhaps the most interesting thing about this is this study http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/118735419/HTMLSTART

Which shows that the banning of MMR had no impact on autism rates. Again be clear – MMR does not cause Autism.

The second article quotes the underlying study at the bottom – here is the link

http://nejm.highwire.org/cgi/reprint/358/15/1580.pdf. It would be better if you could have posted this and or read it first as it would have made your post look more convincing and would have helped you understand the issue.

The basic premise is fair though – a strain of mumps exists against which the vaccine is not effective unless a further booster is given. Based on this info, what is the best response?

a)Remove the vaccine and expose all members of the population to all possible strains of mumps (as well as other diseases).
b)Administer a booster to the population
c)Research the new strain, develop your vaccine and introduce it to the population.

I would suggest that b and c are the better alternatives. This is also the recommendation of your links paper which states


Quote:
“A more effective mumps vaccine or changes in vaccine policy <additional boosters> may be needed to avert future outbreaks and achieve the elimination of mumps.”

Originally Posted by fucktopgirl

INstead you are somewhat telling me that i am not critic enough and wise enough to see true info from wrong and you say i take this personally, not at all. I don't give a shit really what you think of me and my ideas.

It is not that you are not wise enough, it is that you do not understand the difference between the Scientific Method and Pseudoscience. You are not alone, this is probably true of most people.

http://www.therealessentials.com/vaccination-princ.html

Look – you just posted a link to a site that is selling smelly oil for medicinal purpose!!!! Are you seriously going to back Aromatherapy over evidence-based medicine!! Remember when I said this.

It is true that pharmaceuticals seek to make money, but that does not make them evil! They are heavily regulated which means all the treatments they (and the health professionals) offer have to undergo two tests (hence evidence based medicine).

1. They have to demonstrate that they offer a health benefit greater than that of a similarly administered placebo

2. They have to understand the side effects and benefits of any treatment.

The word 'alternative' in front of a health pill or supplement means it has FAILED TEST 1 and has not had to undergo test 2.

I wonder what tests have been done to show that 'Young Living essential Oils' are effective and cause no harm?

Originally Posted by fucktopgirl

To each their own. In my view , YOU are the one who is a bit sidetrack by just believing main stream media

We are going in circles here – all through this thread I have tried to keep away from the media, I have posted links to the RAW Data – the pure facts, no opinion, no interpretation just real data. How can you possibly accuse me of this? I have shown that vaccines do not cause autism, that medical controls / regulation are effective and that it is the pseudoscientific community who is profiting off of the vulnerability of individuals by getting them to switch from clearly ineffective treatments from clearly effective ones. I have spelled it out for you as simply as I know how – I can do no more but hope some of this has stuck.

[EN[i]GMA]

Your mistake in arguing with her is thinking that her position is actually based on reason and evidence, and not, as it in fact is, on some petulant, individualist-born notion of a "freedom" to believe whatever it is happens to strike her fancy.

I mean, it's almost fascistic of you to force her to believe that autism isn't caused by vaccines, what with your evidence and reason and logic! How hegemonic of you (and how hegemonic of the facts!) to not align with these preconceived notions of the world is.

She chooses to believe that vaccines cause autism. That's all there is to it. She doesn't choose it FOR any reason, of course, simply because that's what she CHOOSES to believe. So your trying to convince her that she's wrong is really (from her perspective) an attempt to enslave her free-ranging, independent spirit.

This is about as far as I've psychoanalyzed the anti-vaccine movement.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by EN[i]GMA

This is about as far as I've psychoanalyzed the anti-vaccine movement.

plus there's this too,

.... I think that if the free thinking anti-vaccine crowd does happen to get measles mumps pertussis polio or whatever other preventable deadly diesease, the ace up their sleeve's is the knowledge and availability of aromatherapy.

[Bob]

personally i think laughter is the best medicine

[fucktopgirl]

I agree with BOb here.

By the way, i understand the difference between science and bullshit. There is scientific studies that show that vaccins is one of the factors that can create neurological damage, especially when young kiddos have 10 stuff jab in the arm in one time and that, when their immune system is not that strong.

The main problem, is too much at the same time with susbstances that are quite toxic. They are still figuring out the effect of vaccin on the human body. INjecting foreign animal susbtance in our human cells is likely to create some change and maybe not that positive.

You can say all you want, the fact of the matter is that pharmaceutical companies are business and their goal is profit . There is too much vaccins for just about anything. It has nothing to do with conspiracy but more about choosing what you want in your kid system , informing yourself and not having a blind faith in the health system.

Bunch of Tatawins!

[ms.peachy]

Oh looky, in the New York Times today:

Vaccines exonerated on autism

... but what do they know, bunch of dupes.

[fucktopgirl]

Originally Posted by ms.peachy

Oh looky, in the New York Times today:

Vaccines exonerated on autism

... but what do they know, bunch of dupes.

Urrmm, new york time is not an objective magazine, he is owned by big corporation who have particular interest in mind.

Even Chomsky said once that it was so/so as a source of true journalism.

[ms.peachy]

Yes it's pretty obvious that they are part of the big conspiracy too, and the judges on that trial too, all of them, they're all in on it.

[fucktopgirl]

Your are dumb, nothing to do with conspiracy.

I dont even believe what you say , there is no big conspiracy, it is just that the economic laws rules everything to the detriment of the environment, human and so on. We live in a society where economic interests are in front of everything else.


Anyway, I would certainly not base my opinion on this sole source of info, that for sure.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by fucktopgirl

Your are dumb, nothing to do with conspiracy.

I dont even believe what you say , there is no big conspiracy, it is just that the economic laws rules everything to the detriment of the environment, human and so on. We live in a society where economic interests are in front of everything else.

except for vendors of alternative medicine. they aren't in it for money.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by fucktopgirl

Anyway, I would certainly not base my opinion on this sole source of info, that for sure.

yes you would, you've demonstrated 0 critical thinking skills and have insulted each individual who has demonstrated critical thinking skills.
you have relied completely on one train of thought.

[fucktopgirl]

Of course they want to make money too. We live in a material world where you need money in order to survive. Who don't want to make monay?

But there is differents kind of approach to the way of making money. The main purpose, in alternative medecine, is to work with nature and human in a balance way. I am not saying that everything that this movement bring is fucking A and without corruption.

Anyway, it is a matter of choice and background. My opinion on vaccins are roots in my family and my surrounding since i am kiddo. We are 6 childrens, i am the second oldest in the family. My older brother and i where vaccinated , but i did not have all the shots because one time i react badly , so my mom decide that was it. So all my others siblings are unvaccinated. Some of my cousins and old family friend aren't either. So , that why i believe in more alternative medecine and that i don't believe in vaccins that much...

So, after this brief , superficial , lesson of my family history. I hope you guys understand a bit more where i am from and why i have this belief. But, when my daughter was born, i research and informed myself and i still do to this day, i though /think that my parents stance on the issue was/is still relevant.,

Ok, NOW , i am also done talking about this.

Let's not waste our time! Either way, i will still believe that my truth is worthy and you will still think yours is too

[Bob]

Originally Posted by fucktopgirl

Of course they want to make money too. We live in a material world where you need money in order to survive. Who don't want to make monay?

But there is differents kind of approach to the way of making money. The main purpose, in alternative medecine, is to work with nature and human in a balance way. I am not saying that everything that this movement bring is fucking A and without corruption.

ahahahahahaha. thanks, my cold is gone

[fucktopgirl]

At least i make you laugh...

[Documad]

Originally Posted by fucktopgirl

The two last link i posted are quite good with real information. But that not enough for you. Because of the title of the website. OK then, no need to discuss here anymore if you are not able to debate information i put here.

http://www.therealessentials.com/vaccination-princ.html

I'm still trying to figure out why you believe your websites. Anyone can start a website and post a personal opinion. That doesn't mean it's true. You believe anything that says what you want to hear and ignore the things you disagree with.

By the way, I'm watching PBS's documentary about polio again. It still scares me.

[Lyman Zerga]

shes french, give her a break

[fucktopgirl]

^ ?? what the point?

[Dorothy Wood]

she's also a hippie, let us not forget.


no offense. just sayin'

[fucktopgirl]

^ Right... If i am a hippie, you are a hispter ?


you don't even know me, how can you attach an etiquette on me? I dont buy into social groups/classs of any sort.


I am just me , that it.

You guys are a bit twat, because i have an different opinion, you need to justify why; She is french( by the way , i am quebecer), She is an hippie( which i am not ).

Sometime, this place have a feeling of high school ...

[Dorothy Wood]

I'm just teasing! I think I agree with a quarter of the things you're saying, and maybe 40% of what the pro-vaccine people are saying. the other 35%, I've just made up myself.

[HAL 9000]

Not wanting to resurrect a dead thread, but saw this today and had to laugh.

Jenny McCarthy - the lady who thinks vaccines cause autism and contain harmful toxins…. wait for it……

wait for it….

Is a fan of Botox!!!!!!!!!

"I love Botox, I absolutely love it," she said. "I get it minimally, so I can still move my face. But I really do think it's a savior."

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/jenny-mccarthy-on-playboy-botox-husband-jim-carrey/19433?nc

The clue is in the name BoTOX. That is Botulinum toxin – the most toxic protein known to man, injected straight into her stupid head!

Classic, what a moron! How does her mind rationalise this?

[fucktopgirl]

^ i agree she is stupid... Botox

Anyway, i did bring her up just to show that, well, this issue is getting media attention, it is no more a tabou to talk about the possible side effect of excessive vaccination at a young age.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Documad

I'm disturbed at the prospect of a parent who makes critical health care decisions for his/her kid (and other kids) based upon youtube videos.

It's starting to sink in now that there must be large numbers of parents who are in that same camp. My oh my.

my oh my indeed