Why the police must be watched closely

[b i o n i c]

the fact is he should've probably kept his opinion to himself and concentrated on more important issues. it wasnt productive in light of the much larger and more important issues he should be dealing with.

issues that really divide us.

and my whole thing with this isnt that gates was done the biggest injustice ever. people who dont want to see the truth will amplify opposing opinions to ridicule a series of facts that equal a sensible conclusion, making their own more ridiculous opinions seem sensible. this is just one example that gives the opportunity to discuss the larger issue.

the fact is that after rob said

Originally Posted by RobMoney$

it's a fact that everyone identifies with their own race more than another. It's human nature.

he responded to

Originally Posted by b i o n i c

so you do agree that racism/socio-economic discrimination may or does exist in american law enforcement?

and said

Originally Posted by RobMoney$

Yes. It exists everywhere.

If I walked into a black-owned business and applied for a job, and I knew I was up against someone who is black for the position, I'd expect not to get the job. It's natural for a black business owner to feel more comfortable with and trust another black person. That goes for every race of people.

which by extension i took to imply that rob and others believe that its natural for whites to feel more comfortable with and trust other whites.

since this is the kind of opinion that comes from someone who's defending the police, im not sure what to think of that. everyone has a right to feel however they want to feel, it is america after all. im not sure id be comfortable with knowing that some police might subscribe to that same line of thinking.

at the very least, we can agree that police can be / are unfair to some people based on race or class. with that concensus in place, i dont understand how anyone can wholeheartedly defend the police


im confused how i or anyone who point out the the injustice of these inequities is seen as divisive?


whatever, like i said at the beginning, most of the debates in here end up going in circles.

[Dorothy Wood]

who can even concentrate on racism when Sgt. Crowley is so dreamy?!

Sgt. Crowley is HOT!

[Dorothy Wood]

okay, here, this is actually what I meant to post, just couldn't find it:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...FRb9QD99KF8S00

For five of the past six years, Crowley also has volunteered alongside a black colleague in teaching 60 cadets per year about how to avoid targeting suspects merely because of their race, and how to respond to an array of scenarios they might encounter on the beat. Thomas Fleming, director of the Lowell Police Academy, said Crowley was asked by former police Lowell Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, to be an instructor.
"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming said.

geez louise, I think now more than ever that this was just a huge misunderstanding and these dudes need to talk to each other so this whole thing can be over!

[kaiser soze]

I find it a bit odd that people bitch about Obama's statement but when bush made jokes about missing WMD's (not to mention the thousands of lives who were murdered for said WMD's) hardly anyone batted an eyelash

unbefuckinglievable

[Dorothy Wood]

Originally Posted by kaiser soze

I find it a bit odd that people bitch about Obama's statement but when bush made jokes about missing WMD's (not to mention the thousands of lives who were murdered for said WMD's) hardly anyone batted an eyelash

unbefuckinglievable

wait, you mean on here, or in the world and on t.v.?

I batted a billion eyelashes during bush's reign. I hate his guts. and plenty of people still protested him every single day he was in office.

don't act like you're the only one who disliked him.

it's okay to question leadership. obama exacerbated a situation that needed to be quashed. that's just a fact. you can't just stand up and vilify a whole town' police department when you're the president. I'm sorry, it's just not right.

and not because they're all, "wahh, obama doesn't like us." it's because now people are like, "grrr, I don't like obama".

[Documad]

Indeed. I know who I am.

[kaiser soze]

Originally Posted by Dorothy Wood

don't act like you're the only one who disliked him.

did I?

[yeahwho]

Does it ever occur to the President that Professor Gates acted stupidly? What criteria puts Harvard Professors on a different level than Police Officers?


Obama calls white policeman who arrested scholar

Both are honest endeavors and I have to say each are Noble, but one of these professions means putting your life on the line everyday.

I do envision some sort of impasse or cooling down, Gates need to avoid a Gates Gate by simmering down his high intellect and just maybe admit that his insulting of Crowley doing his job was uncalled for. He wasn't arrested because he was Black. I've read about this enough to realize the reason his front door was barricaded was to prevent a break-in.

Our neighborhood has been hit by a series of daytime break-ins all year, 3 on my immediate block. This prompted me to buy a pretty fancy alarm system since I'm usually gone half a year.

This isn't about Obama bashing, the story started out as "Why the police must be watched closely" and I have to say in this case the Police acted accordingly. Especially after having an almost identical incident happen to myself.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by DroppinScience

Thank you!

This self-righteous indignation is really tired by now, and I'm surprised you guys haven't collapsed from sheer exhaustion yet over who wants to out-Rush Limbaugh Rush Limbaugh.

Rather than demonize the police (which some have been doing here) or demonize Gates or professors in general (you know who you are), I'm going to give them both the benefit of the doubt. The two are most likely all-around decent men who acted out in fits of unreason and got the situation out of control and there's just no turning back. I don't think this is the place to hurl insults like "campus fuckface" left and right. Oh wait, I guess it is. But the level of discourse here is certainly appalling.

The above comment is the without a doubt the most self indignant comment I've read on this thread so far.

uh... this is the hottest story on the internet, on the TV, on radio and in the papers here in the United States. Everybody is talking about it and everybody is a lot of people.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by DroppinScience

It's easy to get infuriated when you don't read the whole thing.

Saying the Cambridge police department, specifically Officer Crowley acted stupidly then not immediately retracting the statement but actually reaffirming it during a second news conference is political suicide.

I started a thread here December 18, 2007 saying I support Obama for our next president. Just like others here I donated, volunteered and voted for him.

I didn't expect him to say something as ignorant as what he did. He now must "mark my words" spend time on damage control. The republicans have begun an ad campaign with his "stupidity" remarks as the key focusof the ad. The conglomerate owned media is on fire.

Obama fucked up, I've read all of it.

[yeahwho]

This is the guy I voted for, now he's doing the right thing.

Crowley pleased by president’s phone call

Will Professor Gates have anything positive to add to this?

[Dorothy Wood]

Originally Posted by kaiser soze

did I?

I don't know, you said nobody cared when bush said stupid things. but they surely did.

[saz]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

The above comment is the without a doubt the most self indignant comment I've read on this thread so far.

uh... this is the hottest story on the internet, on the TV, on radio and in the papers here in the United States. Everybody is talking about it and everybody is a lot of people.

so according to that logic then, should we also be talking about american idol and dancing with the stars and other tabloid fodder?

Originally Posted by yeahwho

Saying the Cambridge police department, specifically Officer Crowley acted stupidly then not immediately retracting the statement but actually reaffirming it during a second news conference is political suicide.

I started a thread here December 18, 2007 saying I support Obama for our next president. Just like others here I donated, volunteered and voted for him.

I didn't expect him to say something as ignorant as what he did. He now must "mark my words" spend time on damage control. The republicans have begun an ad campaign with his "stupidity" remarks as the key focusof the ad. The conglomerate owned media is on fire.

Obama fucked up, I've read all of it.

crowley was stupid for arresting gates, as the charges were dropped. and gates was stupid too for acting like a dick. this whole story is stupid, as well as all of the coverage it is receiving.

[RobMoney$]

Originally Posted by QueenAdrock

I don't get how these comments are so infuriating.

...said the young lady with the Obama avatar.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by Dorothy Wood

I don't know, you said nobody cared when bush said stupid things. but they surely did.

It just seemed as if everything he said was stupid, so we did get blase' 'bout it after awhile. Eight years of mush mouthed presidenting statementer's wears you down.

[jennyb]

Originally Posted by saz

...this whole story is stupid, as well as all of the coverage it is receiving.

word.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by saz

so according to that logic then, should we also be talking about american idol and dancing with the stars and other tabloid fodder?

Sure, but since it's more entertainment than political post it in the Beastie free general discussion.

Originally Posted by saz

crowley was stupid for arresting gates, as the charges were dropped. and gates was stupid too for acting like a dick. this whole story is stupid, as well as all of the coverage it is receiving.

The whole story is actually fascinating. If you simplify it down to cliff notes and take the main player (POTUS) out, it becomes stupid.

But of course you're above all of this and have posted nothing but criticism of those who have commented on it all along. You're sort of dick now that I think about it.

[RobMoney$]

Originally Posted by kaiser soze

I find it a bit odd that people bitch about Obama's statement but when bush made jokes about missing WMD's (not to mention the thousands of lives who were murdered for said WMD's) hardly anyone batted an eyelash

unbefuckinglievable

Yeah, Bush was hardly ever criticized at all in the media.
It was weird how none of the news networks or talk show hosts ever questioned him about WMD's.

[kaiser soze]

I'm well aware he was criticized, I just feel the one instance where he made light of the WMD situation (The correspondents dinner) it didn't go viral....I don't even remember it being discussed much in the major news outlets.

oh well

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by RobMoney$

Yeah, Bush was hardly ever criticized at all in the media.
It was weird how none of the news networks or talk show hosts ever questioned him about WMD's.

I have to say even though we are both coming from ideologically opposed points of view you have conducted yourself extremely intelligently throughout this discussion, you have been more informed and on point than what I feel is the liberal's flaw of hiding their head in the sand when hypocrisy rears itself.

It's been nice to have someone willing to get it all out there in the open with on a real time topic that has galvanized most of the Nation this past few days.

Cheers.

[RobMoney$]

I've enjoyed the fact that I'm not standing alone on one side (the conservative side) of the debate while everyone else is lined up against me on the other (the liberal side).

There's much more balance on this topic than most and it's made for a better debate.
Even kaiser's been uncommonly even on this.

[QueenAdrock]

Originally Posted by RobMoney$

...said the young lady with the Obama avatar.

...which has been up for months and months, since I rarely change out my avatars since I don't give a crap once one is up. If you're trying to insinuate that I've got some kind of blinded Obama-love going on, try again.

Separate the man from the comments, and tell me how one MAN saying that Crowley is "outstanding" yet made a mistake and probably shouldn't have arrested a man within his own home after producing an ID is so infuriating.

[RobMoney$]

You posted a link that showed you appearing on your local Canadian news station campaigning for the man for crying out loud.

I don't recall you ever coming down on the opposite side of Obama on a single topic.

Face it, you two are his most staunch supporters here.
Either one of you guys posting a pro-obama opinion is about as predictable as it gets in here.

[QueenAdrock]

I have said that there are things I don't agree with him on. You just like to glaze over them and ignore it, and paint me in your mind to be his #1 fan because it suits your needs.

Regardless, you still fail to explain to me why his comments are so infuriating. You said you were mad, and then when he comes out and explains his comments and says that he in fact finds the cop to be "outstanding" you get even madder, and it makes no sense.

And me asking this doesn't make me "pro-Obama." There are two totally differing stories on each side, and it's a classic case of he said-she said, and I think it's stupid to say "Oh this side is absolutely right," if both of the accounts are completely different from one another. It's just picking one side over the other based on personal preference. I just simply asked why you're twice as pissed off after comments that weren't controversial, it was him clarifying.

[Documad]

QA: I like Obama in general and I have much respect for him, but I still think he was wrong to comment on this story. The president of the US shouldn't comment on local criminal proceedings period. It's even more wrong if he has personal connections to one of the parties. I guess he's called the cop to apologize so it's not an issue anymore.

If the professor and the cop actually meet with Obama at the White House to settle this I will be so fucking pissed off. The president should have better things to do. Good lord.

PS, once again, the Daily Show had the best coverage.

[saz]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

But of course you're above all of this and have posted nothing but criticism of those who have commented on it all along. You're sort of dick now that I think about it.

i was criticizing the media's coverage of such a silly story, not criticizing those who have been commenting in this thread. seems to me though that you were criticizing droppin' though with the self-indulgent remark. anyways, i don't see the point in hurling insults and getting hostile.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Documad

PS, once again, the Daily Show had the best coverage.

i agree and was going to post the same thing but i forgot

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...ite-house-m-d- (skip to about 6:00)

i don't watch the daily show to get my news but i do watch it to get my news about the news

and as long as i'm posting daily show clips this rules too http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...al-health-care

[RobMoney$]

Originally Posted by QueenAdrock

I have said that there are things I don't agree with him on. You just like to glaze over them and ignore it, and paint me in your mind to be his #1 fan because it suits your needs.

Or maybe I think you're his #1 fan because you have an avatar of his logo and posted a video of you campaigning for him, like I already said.
What other conclusion would someone get about you, taking those things into account?
It has nothing to do with suiting my needs really.

Originally Posted by QueenAdrock

Regardless, you still fail to explain to me why his comments are so infuriating. You said you were mad, and then when he comes out and explains his comments and says that he in fact finds the cop to be "outstanding" you get even madder, and it makes no sense.

What I said was that I lost respect for him as a man. I don't know how you interpreted that as my "getting mad"?
I can only conclude it's because you're just trying to spin this as me being some angry, loose cannon?

While you are correct that Obama did call the officer "outstanding", it's you who are the one "glazing over" the comment and using the "part that suits your needs".

This is the part of that statement that I found to be indefensible.

President Obama today stood by his comments that the Cambridge, Mass., police department acted "stupidly" in its arrest of Henry Louis Gates, telling ABC News that the Harvard University professor should not have been arrested.
President says he doesn't regret his criticism of Cambridge police department.

This is the POTUS after he had sufficient time to reflect on his comments.
Don't you find that shocking?
Do you think these comments are part of the solution, or are they contributing to being part of the problem?
Don't you realize what kind of impact this could potentially have on the Cambridge PD's ability to police their community?
Obama potentially just gave every black man in America a license to be disorderly when approached by a cop.
I seriously think that Obama may be the most egocentric President that we've ever had.
It's like every single thing that ever happens in the world somehow revolves around him and his worldview.

It's shocking to me that an educated person such as yourself would need this explained to you.
I mean you asked me, TWICE, why someone would find his comments so infuriating?
I can't understand how an intelligent person wouldn't be upset by them.

Originally Posted by QueenAdrock

And me asking this doesn't make me "pro-Obama." There are two totally differing stories on each side, and it's a classic case of he said-she said, and I think it's stupid to say "Oh this side is absolutely right," if both of the accounts are completely different from one another. It's just picking one side over the other based on personal preference. I just simply asked why you're twice as pissed off after comments that weren't controversial, it was him clarifying.

You know when Chris Matthews takes a shot at Obama, there's a problem.
He said that Presidents have no business speaking out on police matters regardless the case, and Obama made a mistake speaking out on this one.

[RobMoney$]

Originally Posted by Documad

The president of the US shouldn't comment on local criminal proceedings period. It's even more wrong if he has personal connections to one of the parties. I guess he's called the cop to apologize so it's not an issue anymore.

Ya think Obama may have influenced anyone by declaring the PD to have acted "stupidly"? LOLZ


A completely different level of WRONG that I hadn't considered.

[Documad]

Originally Posted by Bob

i agree and was going to post the same thing but i forgot

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...ite-house-m-d- (skip to about 6:00)

i don't watch the daily show to get my news but i do watch it to get my news about the news

and as long as i'm posting daily show clips this rules too http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...al-health-care

Yes, that's what I was thinking of. And I love that second clip. I love when they crack each other up and can't continue the bit.

Originally Posted by RobMoney$

Ya think Obama may have influenced anyone by declaring the PD to have acted "stupidly"? LOLZ


A completely different level of WRONG that I hadn't considered.

The good news is that they had dropped the charges before Obama's comment. At least I think that's the chronology.