occupy wall street

[yeahwho]

To quote the shawshank redemption, how can you be so obtuse?

The manner in which the police all across the US are responding to the Occupy protests has become increasingly similar to their peers in the Middle East. Am I the only one asking this question?

Peacefully arrested protesters for what?

If I were a member of the UofC Davis police department I would want the officers who sprayed mace on protesters removed from the force and prosecuted, since he presents a danger to the public, his colleagues, and himself.

[Turchinator]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

Peacefully arrested protesters for what?

LOL for what? for setting up tents in the middle of a downtown street, for locking arms in the middle of a street creating a traffic blockade, and for refusing to vacate private property as instructed.

thousands upon thousands of protestors chose to stay on the sidewalk and avoid arrests.

the folks who get arrested at these protests make that choice. the folks who were pepper sprayed knew they would be pepper sprayed.

they got what they wanted.

and please stop comparing this to the Arab Spring. Syrian and Egyptian police were picking fools out of the crowd with headshots.

or am i being obtuse?

[yeahwho]

There is very little truth behind the statement, it's a false assumption

the folks who were pepper sprayed knew they would be pepper sprayed.

they got what they wanted.


you are being obtuse

[yeahwho]

Megyn Kelly of FOX News!

‘It’s a Food Product, Essentially’: Fox News Starts Spinning Pepper Spray Cops

[Turchinator]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

you are being obtuse

how so? they were warned they would be pepper sprayed. that's no assumption.

I say they got what they wanted-international recognition for their cause.

[yeahwho]

I guess we're talking about something altogether different.

There are only a few reactions to pepper spraying citizens or students. To not say anything would be obtuse.

You've sided with the police (who are following orders) and I'm calling bullshit on pepper spraying citizens and students.... restraint would be much more effective.

I'm going to quote Kennedy 'cause today marks 48 years since his assassination,

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962

*i know i'm quotin' too many sources...

[Burnout18]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

Be honest with yourself, people. If you saw young people protesting against unfair economic conditions in another country, and then saw them treated the way they have been here -- you'd call it for what it is -- police brutality. But you can't bring yourself to do it here.

No its not. Its nots even close. Protesters get shot and killed in the middle east. Pepper spray is a non lethal weapon.... Not a food substance, but a non lethal weapon. how's that the same? 100 times out of 100 I'd rather be pepper sprayed than shot.

My earlier comments were about the day of action, or whatever 11/17 was called. The protesters are slowly beginning to realize they aren't accomplishing shit. Sorry but "raising awareness" and the widening income gap isn't an accomplishment, its a sad sign of the times that the general public was unaware of those statistics before this.

As they realize they aren't accomplishing anything they are going to leave their park and try to do damage. Preventing people from getting to work, is an ass backwards way to protest the economy and lack of job creation.

It was intriguing at first, and like you yeahwho, my heart was with them. But it became very clear very quickly that this was a disorganized group protesting for the sake of protesting. There is no end victory for them for a group with no goals. Dude even the tea party had goals, objectives and managed to get congressmen and even a senator elected. I cant see any real change coming out of ows. Go home kids, its over.

[Burnout18]

Originally Posted by Turchinator

how so? they were warned they would be pepper sprayed. that's no assumption.

I say they got what they wanted-international recognition for their cause.

Please no one take this out of context, I am not comparing the Joe pa and ows, but when those kids at Penn state were rioting for paterno, one kid got maced ad everyone else said "fuck this" and ran home.

At one point do they realize arrests on their record and mace to the face isn't worth occupying wall street?

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Originally Posted by Turchinator

LOL for what? for setting up tents in the middle of a downtown street, for locking arms in the middle of a street creating a traffic blockade, and for refusing to vacate private property as instructed.

thousands upon thousands of protestors chose to stay on the sidewalk and avoid arrests.

the folks who get arrested at these protests make that choice. the folks who were pepper sprayed knew they would be pepper sprayed.

they got what they wanted.

and please stop comparing this to the Arab Spring. Syrian and Egyptian police were picking fools out of the crowd with headshots.

or am i being obtuse?

Werd, just like all those upstart black people who were protesting in the 60s. They were practically asking to be waterhosed and have dogs sicked on them, am I right? Yeah, you're that guy, it's just 50 years later.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by Burnout18

As they realize they aren't accomplishing anything they are going to leave their park and try to do damage. Preventing people from getting to work, is an ass backwards way to protest the economy and lack of job creation.

It was intriguing at first, and like you yeahwho, my heart was with them. But it became very clear very quickly that this was a disorganized group protesting for the sake of protesting. There is no end victory for them for a group with no goals. Dude even the tea party had goals, objectives and managed to get congressmen and even a senator elected. I cant see any real change coming out of ows. Go home kids, its over.

I'm bemused, and disappointed, by the continual assumptions that legitimate discontent must boil its concerns into a 10-point program to satisfy the media and corporate/technocratic elite, who would immediately attack the points one by one. Everyone knows what the discontent is about, there's no true lack of clarity about that. The confusion is felt only by those in power who haven't figured out how to either destroy or exploit the OWS movement. But WHAT it is about is obvious to everyone.

The idea is working, the use of electronic media and the feeling of a connection with other citizens is real. Occupy Wall Street is not electing anybody, they are getting the message out to those who continually fail their job of representative democracy. The gig is up. We're fucking on it. We are in the streets.

Apparently "Change We Can Believe In" hasn't quite been achieved so millions of people are letting us know, I don't have any superiority trip over Occupy Wall Street, they are us, we are them.

[Turchinator]

Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot

Werd, just like all those upstart black people who were protesting in the 60s. They were practically asking to be waterhosed and have dogs sicked on them, am I right? Yeah, you're that guy, it's just 50 years later.

comparing to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60's now?

tell me about the discrimination OWS protestors face every day when they get on a bus or go to a water fountain.

sensationalism at its finest.

OWS brought awareness that we need to review our police tactics. I don't stand up for the police, I don't apologize for the police.

but if you are illegally blocking traffic and a cop tells you that you better move or you will get pepper sprayed, you might want to clear the street you are blocking.

it's as if you've never seen a protest on a college campus before.

did UC change their tuition hikes yet?

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Originally Posted by Turchinator

comparing to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60's now?

tell me about the discrimination OWS protestors face every day when they get on a bus or go to a water fountain.

sensationalism at its finest.

OWS brought awareness that we need to review our police tactics. I don't stand up for the police, I don't apologize for the police.

but if you are illegally blocking traffic and a cop tells you that you better move or you will get pepper sprayed, you might want to clear the street you are blocking.

it's as if you've never seen a protest on a college campus before.

did UC change their tuition hikes yet?

The point being that, by your statements, you've revealed that you feel it's justifed for the police to respond to non-violent protest with violence, simply because you disagree with the protesters.

[Mil Mascaras]

They're blocking traffic and interfering with people's ability to live their lives. OWS is the problem. Move or be moved. Passive aggression is still aggression.

[Helvete]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

The manner in which the police all across the US are responding to the Occupy protests has become increasingly similar to their peers in the Middle East. Am I the only one asking this question?

Yes, it's exactly the same...

You have no idea.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by Mil Mascaras

They're blocking traffic and interfering with people's ability to live their lives. OWS is the problem. Move or be moved. Passive aggression is still aggression.

I live in a major U.S. City which has a large contingent of Occupy Wall Streeters, I actually went out of my way to drive by and honk my horn on the way to work (which eventually honking a car horn in support of those who protest the status quo became illegal) and I was still early for work, everyday.

Originally Posted by Helvete

Yes, it's exactly the same...

You have no idea.

Similar.... Not exactly the same, similar as in these mass arrests we are witnessing are at record levels in our country. By a group who has a message to the ruling elite.

I am not too sure if you think it's a good thing to block out the media and perform mass arrests of citizens or if it's not cool. My bad just not getting it if it's sarcasm.

[Burnout18]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

The confusion is felt only by those in power who haven't figured out how to either destroy or exploit the OWS movement. But WHAT it is about is obvious to everyone.


Apparently "Change We Can Believe In" hasn't quite been achieved so millions of people are letting us know

What it is and what OWS can actually do about what they want are two different things. They aren't accomplishing anything. They really arent. As a result The movement is getting increasingly more violent. They are fustrated.

I think on some level you just touched on what the underlying issue is. There is massive disappointment in president obama. Even from people who voted for him, and will vote for him again. So many people thought he was coming to be this great problem solver, who was going to inspire unity domestically and abroad.... And he hasnt done that. Not even close. Hes just another uninspiring president.

[Mil Mascaras]

These "protesters" are essentially terrorists and should be treated as such.

[Mil Mascaras]

.....................

[Turchinator]

nobody's even protesting the economy anymore.

people just know that they are MAD and they are using the so called electronic media to take to the streets...

...to block traffic, to stop access to parks, subways, and retail stores.

i know, i know...

the media

[Turchinator]

meanwhile, in Cairo

Cairo (CNN) -- Egypt's general prosecutor on Friday ordered a police officer to submit to questioning regarding his suspected role in shooting protesters in the eyes during recent clashes in Cairo's Tahrir Square.
"The Ministry of Interior is preoccupied by the latest events, but he will come in for questioning soon," Adel Saeed, a spokesman for Egypt's general prosecutor, said about the suspect, 1st Lt. Mahmoud Sobhi El Shinawi.


The evidence offered against El Shinawi includes videos recorded by protesters and posted on Facebook, Saeed said. At least five demonstrators have been shot in the eye, according to authorities.
They are among hundreds of casualties over the past week. Some 41 people have died -- 33 of them in Cairo -- while an additional 3,250 had been wounded as of Friday, Health Ministry spokesman Hisham Shiha has said.


Protesters have called El Shinawi, specifically, "The Eye Hunter" and have sprayed "wanted" stencils featuring his face, name and rank on the walls around Tahrir Square.

i got it from corporate controlled CNN for what it's worth

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Originally Posted by Mil Mascaras

These "protesters" are essentially terrorists and should be treated as such.

Just like mace is essentially a food product?

[Turchinator]

see, we're still talking about the pepper spray incident like it was the "Tianemen Square" moment of the OWS movement, as Michael Moore put it.

we are stuck with the same talking points on either side and the movement is going NOWHERE.

it's not the first time a college student was pepper sprayed at a protest, and it won't be the last. I understand that the nation is in horror over such an incident, but it shouldn't be the focus of the OWS movement. lets start a topic on police brutality.

in fact it has already become one of the most popular memes in Internet lore.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-p...aying-cop-meme
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyLulz

UC Davis Chancellor hasn't stepped down. Lt John Pike on paid administrative leave. he gets $110,000 per year.

those students could drop out of UC in masses if they wanted to make a point.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by Turchinator

meanwhile, in Cairo

Cairo (CNN) -- Egypt's general prosecutor on Friday ordered a police officer to submit to questioning regarding his suspected role in shooting protesters in the eyes during recent clashes in Cairo's Tahrir Square.
"The Ministry of Interior is preoccupied by the latest events, but he will come in for questioning soon," Adel Saeed, a spokesman for Egypt's general prosecutor, said about the suspect, 1st Lt. Mahmoud Sobhi El Shinawi.


The evidence offered against El Shinawi includes videos recorded by protesters and posted on Facebook, Saeed said. At least five demonstrators have been shot in the eye, according to authorities.
They are among hundreds of casualties over the past week. Some 41 people have died -- 33 of them in Cairo -- while an additional 3,250 had been wounded as of Friday, Health Ministry spokesman Hisham Shiha has said.


Protesters have called El Shinawi, specifically, "The Eye Hunter" and have sprayed "wanted" stencils featuring his face, name and rank on the walls around Tahrir Square.




i got it from corporate controlled CNN for what it's worth

It's horrible, I git this today from the Occupy Wall Street page

On November 22, occupiers of Tahrir Square issued an urgent call for global solidarity, asking the world to:

Occupy / shut-down Egyptian embassies worldwide. Now they represent the junta ; reclaim them for the Egyptian people.

Shut down the arms dealers. Do not let them make it, ship it.

Shut down the part of your government dealing with the Egyptian junta.

The Occupy movement is answering their call. Yesterday, hundreds marched on the Egyptian consulate in New York City.

In NYC today (Saturday, Nov 26), an Egyptian solidarity rally will begin at 1 PM at the Egypt Mission (East 44th St & 2nd Ave), with a march at 4PM.

An action is also being planned for Thursday, December 1st in front of a tear gas plant in Jamestown, Pennsylvania that has been supplying the Egyptian military junta. Participants from Occupy camps across the Northeast region will gather outside of the plant, which is owned by Combined Systems International.

http://occupywallst.org/

Then there this from today from the Tea Party site;

he Occupy Wall Street movement has been endorsed by our president, some members of Congress and by others as a movement that is good for America – one that shadows the tea party movement that began in 2009.

This movement just celebrated its two-month anniversary and is receiving unprecedented media coverage. Unlike the tea party movement, however, this group of people is involved in violence, lawbreaking and many other despicable actions.

If you listen to the media, the two groups seem to be voicing similar positions. In reality, however, they are worlds apart.

http://www.teapartypatriots.org/unca...cupy-movement/

[Turchinator]

question: have there been rapes at Occupy encampments? drug dealing? lawlessness?

no matter how the media presents it,exploits it, or hides it, there is a nasty side to the OWS tent city encampments- run-ins with the homeless and derelicts, etc... their General Assemblies are a laughing stock mess.

take action! I'm all for it. just shut the tent cities down, it's time.

[Dorothy Wood]

Do you guys defending the cops really want to live in a police state? Cops shouldn't be allowed to physically harm an unarmed citizen.

I saw a video of cops in my city confiscating a case of bottled water from protestors claiming it was "private goods in the public way". They made a whole big show of it, brought an actual garbage truck and threw it in it. What a waste of time and money.

Listen, I don't totally agree with the protests, but at least it's getting people talking about what's going on. This is an interesting article about everything: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...tests-20111110

Something's wrong, guys, that's why so many people are protesting. Everywhere you turn is a new scam, everyone's trying to sell you something everywhere you look. I get 1-4 phone calls every day at work with some kind of scam artist on the other end of the line, I get people walking in asking me if I want to sign up for such and such so I can "lower my energy bill", or "switch to a new merchant service provider". Why is this the norm? what happened to experiences and fellowship?

Everyone's just getting so shitty and lazy. One example: I've worked at the same place for 6 years, and we pay for a dumpster in the alley, the apartments in the building above us have their own giant dumpster specifically for tenants. Our dumpster has our company name on it and it says it's for us only, and for the first 4 years I worked there, that was enough. People respected it. But not anymore, the tenants' dumpster is just a few dumpsters down the alley, and I guess that's just too far for these fucking wannabe yuppie transplants. So we get disgusting wet kitchen garbage from these wasteful slobs, tossed into our dumpster with their zappos shoe boxes and whatever else white people like. And it fills up so rapidly that we have to let our garbage pile up in the store to the point it becomes a hindrance to our work. We can't even share our business neighbor's recycling dumpster anymore because the tenants kept filling that with non-recyclable trash so often, they had to get rid of it. We are paying the price for other people's laziness.

At least they're lazy enough to not shred their mail, so we know where they live, and we're keeping a list. We've contacted the building manager, put up signs, put a CHAIN on the dumpster...and it still happens. I left the lid open between trips the other day, and stepped out with a garbage can and saw a fake-tanned chick in a northface jacket and uggs walking out of the alley and thought, "I bet she put her garbage in our dumpster". And she did! there were old thongs in there, nutrisystem boxes, some burnt up scented candles, and her mail.


My point is, everyone's complaining about hippies and whatever, but how are they really affecting you personally? Something is wrong with the fact that you can be an idiot and a jerk and yet you think you're better than everyone else because your paycheck is bigger? It's ridiculous, Americans just consume consume consume. You think that chick bought a northface jacket because she's going hiking? How about those uggs? it wasn't even cold outside. Millions of people buy and do things because they are told by advertisers or convinced by mainstream society that this is what they need to look like and/or be in order to be a "normal" person.

Well, I don't want that bullshit, and plenty of other people reject that bullshit. Since when are we all required to be exactly the same? People are allowed to question the status quo, it is a right we have as Americans. Those who don't understand that need to grow up, think about the world from a different perspective. Not everyone is like you, and not everyone wants to be.

[Turchinator]

cool dumpster story, Dotty

[Dorothy Wood]

I know, it's a microcosm of what's wrong with society.

I've got more stories like that. Nouveau riche bastards. Their lifestyle is vulgar to me, the attitude is worse. I had some second rate "investment banker" (more like day trader) come in announcing he wanted something "expensive", a "veneer moulding" to put around some paintings (that he did not bring with him). So, he picked some samples (some of which looked awfully cheap/cheesy) and he wasn't quite satisfied because he wanted the MOST EXPENSIVE, so I said, "well, I can make a finished corner frame that is hand-carved and leafed with 14-carat gold for you for about $5,000". And he was like, "whoa, really?" and so I showed him our special fancy catalog that we only bring out for high rollers, and he was all, "oooh, I'll bring my stuff in later."

So, he brings his amateur paintings (as he described them), picks stuff out, I add it up and he is just shocked, SHOCKED! by the price. Even though I got his order down to around $500 (vs. the previous high of $5,000). and I say, "hey, there are plenty of choices that would be half the amount or less", but nope...he WANTS the expensive choice, just doesn't want to pay for it. So he continues complaining, and I explain why it costs that much (mainly, the materials are expensive, it requires a skilled craftsman to complete, etc.) He decided to place the order and pay for it, makes some rude comments about how he's "in the wrong business" (the statement made to me by about a dozen other assholes over the years), and pleads for a discount. WTF? no class, none.

He talked down to me the entire time, yet he was a complete idiot. He probably makes 10 times my salary, at least, and he's a rude idiot. How can money determine a person's worth, if someone like that and others like him have so much money?


In my experience, people who are wealthy because they are skilled are more polite, they have respect for other people. But there's a whole shit ton of rude idiots who make a lot of money. So I guess that's why everyone's so mad.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by Turchinator

question: have there been rapes at Occupy encampments? drug dealing? lawlessness?

no matter how the media presents it,exploits it, or hides it, there is a nasty side to the OWS tent city encampments- run-ins with the homeless and derelicts, etc... their General Assemblies are a laughing stock mess.

take action! I'm all for it. just shut the tent cities down, it's time.

Occupy means occupy. I don't know what to tell you, other than it's not about staying out of sight.

I have to admit it is a pretty effective idea. The peripheral people who have committed crimes in or around the Seattle Occupy movement are drawn to the movement because of food, warmth and tolerance. I've been out there at night myself wandering around... I surely would of stopped by @ 2AM if it were a different era, my drinking years.

That is a part of it, the crimes such as you describe were happening before OWS and will happen after OWS, statistically in Seattle drugs, rapes, assaults are down from this same time last year.

Civil disobedience is up.

On a side note, my girlfriend works at Macy's which opened at midnite at our local mall for Black Friday, the place was packed! That individual store bypassed the profits of 2010 by 6AM yesterday. What this tells me this, you can expect without a doubt Macy's will open at midnite after Thanksgiving in 2012.

[Turchinator]

you're from Seattle yeahwho, how is this movement any different than the anti-globalization WTO protest in 1999? everyone keeps talking about some great paradigm shift, I dont see it in the tent cities across America.

occupy means occupy, but for what?

[Sir SkratchaLot]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

On a side note, my girlfriend works at Macy's which opened at midnite at our local mall for Black Friday, the place was packed! That individual store bypassed the profits of 2010 by 6AM yesterday. What this tells me this, you can expect without a doubt Macy's will open at midnite after Thanksgiving in 2012.

Personally, I think these black friday shoppers should be shot and raped on site. They have to know when they put themselves in that situation there is going to be violence. They're essentially asking to be assaulted by participating in these events. They get no sympathy from me. If your grandma get's raped at black friday, that's not my problem. She needs to get a job and stop wasting my tax dollars on snuggies.