Why the police must be watched closely

[Michelle*s_Farm]

This sort of bad policing is common and politically motivated. I mean did this officer think it was it was his moral duty to assert his dominance? A little more thought before action would have been better for us all. Police officers and other servants of state (e.g., social workers, hospital workers etc) should first and foremost respect a citizen's right to defend their dignity:

Harvard professor Gates arrested

(CNN) -- African-American scholar and Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was arrested last week on a charge of disorderly conduct after a confrontation with an officer at his home, according to a Cambridge, Massachusetts, police report.

According to the report, officers responded to a call Thursday from a woman who said she saw "a man wedging his shoulder into the front door" at Gates' house near the university. The report, obtained by CNN affiliate WCVB-TV, indicates Gates refused to identify himself to a police officer, claiming the officer was a racist.

Sgt. James Crowley of the Cambridge Police Department stated in the report that he told Gates he was investigating a report of a break-in at the residence. According to the report, Gates "opened the front door and exclaimed, 'Why, because I'm a black man in America?' "

Crowley wrote in the report that he warned Gates two times he was becoming disorderly. After Gates continued to yell and accuse him of racial bias, Crowley wrote he arrested Gates for "loud and tumultuous behavior in a public space."

A statement by Gates' lawyer and fellow Harvard professor Charles Ogletree said that the incident occurred when Gates returned to his home after a trip to China.

Gates, accompanied by a driver, found the front door damaged.

He entered the house with his key through the rear door. Then, he and and driver were able to force the front door open, Ogletree said in his statement.

The statement was published on the Web site The Root, of which Gates is editor-in-chief.

An officer arrived and told Gates he was investigating a call about a breaking-and-entering at the residence, Ogletree wrote.

Gates identified himself at the officer's request, according to Ogletree.

"He [Gates] turned to walk into the kitchen where he had left his wallet. The officer followed him. Professor Gates handed both his Harvard University identification and his valid Massachusetts driver's license to the officer," Ogletree wrote on The Root.

Ogletree's statement also said that Gates asked Crowley for his name and badge number several times without success.

Then, when Gates followed Crowley to the front door, Crowley said, "Thank you for accommodating my earlier request, and then placed him [Gates] under arrest," Ogletree said.

The Cambridge Police Department would not release any information regarding the incident.

Gates has one of 20 prestigious "university professors" positions at Harvard University, according to WCVB, and joined the faculty in 1991. He is considered one of the nation's pre-eminent scholars of African-American studies. In 1997, Time magazine placed him on its list of the 25 most influential Americans.





SOURCE: CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/21/...ted/index.html

[b i o n i c]

dont even get me started on pigs

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Originally Posted by b i o n i c

dont even get me started on pigs

The strange thing is that we can hurl insults, rocks and complaints about them but young people keep applying to serve and protect the masses. I wonder if applicants to become a police officer truly believe that society would be violent without them patrolling the streets. I do not think there is any solid evidence that countries with police forces are more safe than those without.

[b i o n i c]

i would get into a debate about it, but most of the political discussion doesnt go anywhere here i think.

there's plenty of evidence that the police abuse their powers, and while i do think there is a smallish percentage of officers who do their jobs fairly and for the right reasons, i think a larger percentage of officers are either crooks in uniform or people who may've gone in for the right reasons but fall into the culture.

nypd, for one, are out of control.

[saz]

Originally Posted by Michelle*s_Farm

I do not think there is any solid evidence that countries with police forces are more safe than those without.

yeah, somalia is safe and sound.

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Originally Posted by b i o n i c

i would get into a debate about it, but most of the political discussion doesnt go anywhere here i think.

i think a larger percentage of officers are either crooks in uniform or people who may've gone in for the right reasons but fall into the culture.

Yes. It does seem that people are either too scared to discuss or so stubborn in their values (i.e., black and white thinkers) that political discussion is stiffled. It is strange how some people do not question the most basic of things (e.g., do we need to be policed at all, what is the best way to keep our communities safe from violence, do we even need to lock people up for drug selling or buying).

I saw this story (see below) that in The Netherlands they are closing down prisons because crime is at an all time low.

SOURCE:

http://www.nrc.nl/international/arti...k_of_criminals

[Michelle*s_Farm]

Originally Posted by saz

yeah, somalia is safe and sound.

Strange point considering that Somalia has a police force called the Somali Police Force (SPF):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Police_Force

[b i o n i c]

i wouldnt go so far as to say we do not need police

we do need them!

but we need police working for us... this is not what we have right now, at least not in nyc


here's something i posted a little bit back:

Originally Posted by b i o n i c

the cops become robbers

read this:
http://www.johnbyronkuhner.com/?p=905

this same type of thing has happened to me except i was asleep, my feet were on the ground and i wasnt taking up two seats.. my head was against the window. i woke up to the sight of a cop putting a ticket in my lap, he had taken my fucking wallet out of my jacket pocket (it was new years eve and it was late) - in other words, it was bullshit

basically the link is a story about this guy riding the nyc subway home late at night a few weeks ago. the train went into a station, and a few cops came in and pulled the men out of the car, left the women.

the were all told to sit and hand over id's without any explanation. this is in the middle of the night. and there were i think 6 cops doing this operation. the guy had to practically beg for a reason. they were told their names would be run for warrants and that they were all getting $50 tickets.

they are now doing subway sweeps and ticketing people for, in most cases, doing nothing. they said that the tickets were for things like putting your feet on a seat, but in most cases, the guys werent even doing that. but there is no questioning the nypd. see my story above. i know plenty of people who've had similar things happen.

this guy wasnt drunk, he wasnt black, he wasnt bothering anyone. he just happened to be on that train. this is not a once in a while thing, this is a campaign that they are on to make money for the city.

and some might say, hey, take it to court. right. its a waste of time. and the word is getting out that in most cases, people have to just pay up. doesnt this scare anyone? hasnt this kind of thing happened in history?

so basically its a money grab.

the people on the side of the nypd say, "well if you can't follow the rules, stay home". well, yeah.. but how would people feel about the police using their resources to put cops on every corner to ticket people for jaywalking? this is not what this guy or i did, but how is going on a ticketing spree to hold and fine people for stretching out on a half empty train at 3 in the morning much different than nabbing scores of people for jaywalking?

of course their numbers are up, when you start cracking down on bullshit like this its gonna pad the numbers. its disgusting.


i have TONS of these stories

[saz]

Originally Posted by Michelle*s_Farm

Strange point considering that Somalia has a police force called the Somali Police Force (SPF):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Police_Force

you missed the point, and this little blurb from the wikipedia (wikipedia also being the proverbial writing on the washroom wall) link:

After Siad Barre fled Mogadishu in January 1991, both the Darawishta and Birmadka forces ceased to operate, for all practical purposes.

somalia was in a state of total shambles when warlords and thugs overran the country, in which total chaos and anarchy ensued. i'm all for ending the war on drugs, but speculating, or better yet believing that there is no solid evidence that countries with police forces are more safe than those without is so utterly preposterous that it's laughable.

[Burnout18]

Originally Posted by b i o n i c

there's plenty of evidence that the police abuse their powers, and while i do think there is a smallish percentage of officers who do their jobs fairly and for the right reasons, i think a larger percentage of officers are either crooks in uniform or people who may've gone in for the right reasons but fall into the culture.

See i think its the other way around, the small percentage are the assholes who abuse thier power. When cops do go nuts, thats why it makes the front page of the daily news because its relatively rare when you consider the amount of people(and cops) in nyc. Don't act like every day some cop puts 41 shots in an unarmed black dude.

This case may be an example of an asshole but if this:

~According to the report, Gates "opened the front door and exclaimed, 'Why, because I'm a black man in America?' "~

is true, thats not smart on Gates's part is it?

[b i o n i c]

what you say about the percentages, maybe. im not closed to that possibility.

but i can tell you about my personal experiences and i can tell you that when i've needed them they've never been helpful.

like the time i got in a fender bender two blocks from times square late at night. i waited for TWO HOURS for a cop to come and take a police report that ultimately took 10 minutes. i called the police about 3 times over the course of this time.

and the "they've got better things to do" thing that some people might say doesnt fly with me.

i literally stood in the street, flagging them down. they didnt know what i wanted since me and the other guy parked our cars on the side of the road. im not exhaggerating when i say that at least 10 cop cars passed right by and kept going.

they would literally look the other way and keep driving. at the beginning of this ordeal, there was a small fire a block away, so i walked over as they were wrapping up and politely asked a bunch of cops if someone would come over when they were done. they all said, "oh yeah sure" so i went back. they wrapped up and left.

you know how i got one to stop after TWO HOURS? i took my camera out and pointed it at them as i had my hand up. the first one stopped and took the report.

now im not saying that everything in the world should stop for my little fender bender, but come on.

and i have at least 5 experiences JUST like this which i will spare you

and other experiences that involve things a little more serious than getting a police report.

from personal experiences i have a hard time giving nypd the respect that they command

[Burnout18]

yea i have shitty story similiar to that too, i waited for close to 45 mins after i called 911 after my accident on rt 80 in jersey. And the troopers that showed up were dicks. But again, who the fuck knows, maybe they showed up and saw me (i turn 24 on thursday but i can still pass for 18, i look like a baby) and thought i was some shithead kid who hit the divider while on his phone or something.

But as pissed as i was, i still didn't hold it against the entire population of cops, you know?

I have had run ins with the cops that were good and bad, in the city, in jersey and in college (in PA). Same thing everywhere, most good cops who are doing what they think is thier job, but some are hard asses just looking to fuck up your day.

[yeahwho]

I will tell you that two months ago my alarm system in my house went off inadvertently, I was asleep (it was 11:00 AM I'd been working night shift that day), woke up and reset it. While I walked around the house to check doors, windows, dogs and cats a knock came on the door. The police had been called and this officer was dispatched to my house. He actually snuck up to the house, his car was on another block.

He asked if I was the homeowner, if I knew an alarm was triggered and just like Gates experience in the above story asked to see my ID. Then he left.

I am white, I did not flip him any shit and I was tired, grateful nobody had actually ripped me off and I went to bed.

Draw your own conclusions on my incident. Was the fact that I didn't get obnoxious why I did not get charged? Or was it because I'm white? Or is it the officer was better at protecting citizens?

Or was it something else? I'm just saying that is how it happened in my case.

[RobMoney$]

Originally Posted by Michelle*s_Farm

According to the report, Gates "opened the front door and exclaimed, 'Why, because I'm a black man in America?' "

This is always a great idea of how to greet an officer investigating a B&E at your residence.

Perhaps if he had answered the door, exited the residence, and identified himself as the officer requested there wouldn't have been a problem.
Typical campus fuckface alarmist way to overreact.

The officer did nothing wrong, this Gates guy was the one who responded inappropriatley to the situation.
He should be removed from "teaching".

[yeahwho]

I'm not too sure how all of this actually went down for Gates, but it sounds as if he is extremely intelligent and focused on his ideology during all functions of his life.

The cop on the other hand sounds as if he's just an average guy with an a dangerous job that is disdained and respected at the furthest outreaches of society, he's doing his job and really doesn't need a lecture or schooling on societal standards. His job is about protecting you from sociopaths and thieves.

I do not correlate any wisdom coming out of this other than a bit of righteous indignation and exploitation of a guy who really had no intent to harass or be harassed.

[Documad]

Rob, get real. When a cop responds to a call of breaking and entering and sees a guy trying to jam his shoulder into the front door of the house, the cop has no right to ask the guy to step out on the lawn while the cop makes a call. What are you thinking?

[saz]

actually it was an eye witness who saw a man wedging his shoulder into the front door at gates' home, and not the cop.

regardless, this is a he said-he said affair. and the charges were dropped.

[b i o n i c]

Originally Posted by Documad

Rob, get real. When a cop responds to a call of breaking and entering and sees a guy trying to jam his shoulder into the front door of the house, the cop has no right to ask the guy to step out on the lawn while the cop makes a call. What are you thinking?

im curious to know what you think about the link i posted, doc? maybe also if you think that police abuse of power exists or not in the us or nyc

[yeahwho]

Why would he yell at the cop? Did this officer do anything other than respond to a call to see if a house was being robbed?

As I said before when I installed my alarm system I knew one day a mistake would happen (because I'm a fuck up not a college professor) and when it did happen I responded graciously that somebody did show up.

Just my take on this, I actually believe Gates would of been less outraged if he was robbed blind*. Then he would have nobody to publicly blame. Why doesn't he make a movie on how smart college professors are and why society is so bankrupt up because of it?

*i wanted to say colorblind

[Burnout18]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

I will tell you that two months ago my alarm system in my house went off inadvertently, I was asleep (it was 11:00 AM I'd been working night shift that day), woke up and reset it. While I walked around the house to check doors, windows, dogs and cats a knock came on the door. The police had been called and this officer was dispatched to my house. He actually snuck up to the house, his car was on another block.

He asked if I was the homeowner, if I knew an alarm was triggered and just like Gates experience in the above story asked to see my ID. Then he left.

I am white, I did not flip him any shit and I was tired, grateful nobody had actually ripped me off and I went to bed.

Draw your own conclusions on my incident. Was the fact that I didn't get obnoxious why I did not get charged? Or was it because I'm white? Or is it the officer was better at protecting citizens?

Or was it something else? I'm just saying that is how it happened in my case.

Dude that story actually reminded me, when i first got my license, i left my house and put on my alarm but forgot to lock the door..... i came back ten minutes later and cops were inside my house(the door had blown open from the wind)..... dude the first thing i said when i saw those cops was "I live here, officers." I didn't flip out cause cops were in my house. They didn't even ask for ID they just said ok, laughed at my pussy ass dog who didnt even bark when they walked in and left..... again like you, i was a white kid who didn't overreact maybe that has something to do with not being charged with anything.

[yeahwho]

Police said Gates was arrested after he yelled at an officer, accused him of racial bias and refused to calm down after the officer demanded that Gates show him identification to prove he lived in the home.

Jesse Jackson also piped in,

The Rev. Jesse Jackson said he was unsatisfied with the resolution.

"The charges have been dropped, but the stain remains. ... Humiliation remains," Jackson said. "These incidents are so much of a national pattern on race."

These are the sort of people Obama distanced himself from during the 2008 campaign, draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is they want to advance un-cooperative behavior.

[Documad]

Originally Posted by b i o n i c

im curious to know what you think about the link i posted, doc? maybe also if you think that police abuse of power exists or not in the us or nyc

The link doesn't work for me. I have to leave for a concert in a couple of minutes anyhow. I don't know about NYC in particular but there are certainly bad cops out there. I've had mostly good experiences myself, both as a citizen and in working with them professionally, but I also knew a few bad ones. I also know a few bad attorneys, doctors, general contractors, etc. It's a horrible job and I'm grateful that people want to do it because I sure as hell wouldn't.

[Documad]

I'm willing to believe that a cop would ask more questions of a black guy who appeared to breaking into his own home than the cop would ask of me in the same circumstance. That sucks, but I believe that it happens. And cops aren't the only people who assume things based on race. We have to be vigilant about racial issues. It sounds like the cops were correct to recommend dismissal in this case.

But it doesn't mean that we should get rid of police altogether as was suggested by the person who started this thread.

By the way, I have several friends who are raising black teenage boys and they teach their sons to cooperate with police and not to mouth off. You don't get anywhere by yelling at a cop or threatening him.

[yeahwho]

It's the Dog Days of summer already, look at the Headlines in Seattle today, 2 troopers accused in deadly clubbing of seagulls

[b i o n i c]

when you get a chance, look up gothamist.com and search "smart guy" "nypd" you'll find the story.

OF COURSE there are good and bad whatevers.

but we;re talking about he POLICE whose jobs are ONLY to PROTECT us. the capitals are my about my own disenchantment with them, its not to you


i dont count on my neighbors' contractors to do good work for me
i dont count on my friends' doctor to treat me well.

but we all count on our public 'servants' to do us all right.

and i have a degree of gratefulness for many of our public servants to do the job they are assigned. like our troops overseas. i completely understand that they are following orders. i refuse to disrespect a soldier coming home from iraq for doing what he has been told to do. and maybe it can be looked at the same way with the nypd. i can still look at the outcome and be disgusted. and like our firemen. i HAVE and am thankful to them for what they do. but the gratitude ends when they're not doing their job. not to mention the fact that they, in the case of nypd or fdny, are well paid to do what they do. im inclinded to believe that, for some nypd, at least some of these dudes arent really joining to 'serve'. they are joining for the salaries and benefits. and they've got some KILLER benefits. check em out. its not like they're volunteers. so they should be expected to work FOR US, and not just be painted with the broad brush of wonderful public servants. they are paid to work. and they do, but i ask myself FOR WHOM?


check out the story if you get a chance.. i respect your opinions and would like to know more what you think just specifically on this matter.

[RobMoney$]

I'm admittedly not as familiar with the NYPD or the criticisms against them as you are Bionic, but I have a hard time believing anyone's joining the force simply for the salary and the bennies, no matter how good they are.
And they deserve great benefits, don't you think?

[RobMoney$]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

Police said Gates was arrested after he yelled at an officer, accused him of racial bias and refused to calm down after the officer demanded that Gates show him identification to prove he lived in the home.

Jesse Jackson also piped in,

The Rev. Jesse Jackson said he was unsatisfied with the resolution.

"The charges have been dropped, but the stain remains. ... Humiliation remains," Jackson said. "These incidents are so much of a national pattern on race."

These are the sort of people Obama distanced himself from during the 2008 campaign, draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is they want to advance un-cooperative behavior.

out-fucking-standing post.

[b i o n i c]

Originally Posted by RobMoney$

I'm admittedly not as familiar with the NYPD or the criticisms against them as you are Bionic, but I have a hard time believing anyone's joining the force simply for the salary and the bennies, no matter how good they are.
And they deserve great benefits, don't you think?

100% absolutely. they definitely deserve great benefits. i think that as they deserve these benefits, we deserve a force that work for us. this is what we're paying for. world class benefits for world class protection.

[Dorothy Wood]

I would just like to say that I find it hard to believe that this nerdy little old man was in any way threatening to a police officer, even if he was yelling.

I mean, he just got home from China, he was probably sleepy and crabby. I'd sure as hell start yelling at a cop if he was accusing me of breaking into my own house.

the report sounds fishy to me, the "black man in america" thing just sounds kinda made up. or maybe he said it, but in a sarcastic way. I guess we'll never know.

I think that even if he got rowdy, it sounds like he did identify himself. so the officer should've just been like, "okay, man, just calm down." and explained how his reaction was uncalled for. he should never have arrested him. it's absolutely preposterous that he would be considered threatening.

I mean look at him with Oprah, she's only 5'6": http://www-tc.pbs.org/previews/image...ail_OPRA_1.jpg

and here: http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...ubois1-450.jpg


and here he is poking a ghost of lincoln: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p91V-BHfe6k


he's just a little nerdy dude.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by Dorothy Wood

he's just a little nerdy dude.

Perhaps we're missing the true problem here, the Napoleon complex.