UK Queens Jubilee

[gdiddy27]

Hey, I posted this message in the wrong forum, so have re-posted here.

I dunno what any UK or international peeps are feeling about the British Monarch's diamond Jubilee. It makes me kinda sick that that a person can be born superior to a whole country and enjoy freedoms, rights and rich's we can only dream of without displaying any actual talent.

So in the spirit of actually acting on issues I care about, inspired by Adam Yauch, I decided to make a little video about it.

Even if it doesn't change your mind I hope it at least makes you think about it a little.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PYEKSOBRtM

Peace and love

Gary

[dave790]

I'm not fussed... everything you say is right but everyone in England get's a 4 day-weekend, i.e. extended piss-up. God save the Queen!

[Randetica]

not the first problem i would fight in this world but yeah the monarchy is pointless these days

[HAL 9000]

I agree with the OP, the governance of the UK is frankly embarrassing. We have an unelected head of state, unelected representatives of the state religion in the house of lords and the one-third of schools are church run at the tax-payers expense and can exclude children whose parents are not of the correct religion.

This is in 21st century Europe.

I think we need a constitution and to be a secular republic.

But, I can certainly see that why this is not at the top of the agenda right now, bigger problems in the world.

[Adam]

I try to keep up with politics, enjoy a debate, but republicans to me come across as wasting time.

I get the arguments, they are sane but the whole process will be a bigger money sync that the country can afford right now and then you have the mammoth task of getting people out to vote for it.

I've done some campaigning for the green party before and although people on the doorstep say "yeah this should be changed blah blah blah..." the amount of people who came out and vote is often less than 25%. If we can't get people in polling stations for local and general elections then we sure won't get them into polling stations for a head of state.

I know this sounds like apathy and it is. But until the UK are regularly pushing 80% of voters voting, this is a non-issue for me. I forget who else is big on this issue on the board but I also killed a thread asking how do we get people to vote for this when they won't for locally elected officials?

And right now, why do we need a voted in cemorial post? We have X-Factor et al for shit like that. Let it be, at least it brings in the American tourists.

[Pres Zount]

The biggest problem in the world right now is the unorganised and unfair distribution and waste of resources, property and political power - aka capitalism.

The fact that the UK (and Australia, and various other commonwealth nations) have the queen as their head of state, and a royal family at all, is a small part of that big problem, but still very much part of it. It's a disgrace, and the best argument against getting rid of it - 'we're too lazy' - is very telling of how bad the situation is. Perhaps people are apathetic towards local or national politics because they never get a say anyway, and they are used to having their lives run for them.

I don't think the fact that there may be more important things to fix in the world is a good enough reason to do nothing about it, either.

[Adam]

^I get the points but so many other things need to happen first.

First you need a large party who is willing to take on the Queen. Labour & Tory or Lib Dems aren't going to vote for that. So it need these thousands of these vocal supporters to start their own party locally and run with it. It's no accident that BNP, UKIP set up in the most already racist parts of Britain. It's the same reason the Green Party get their first MP in Brighton - therefore this party should set up in the most anti-monarch parts. I dunno, say Bristol (seems like that sort of place).

Once you have your first MP then you make your voice heard. Get your 2nd MP and keep doubling until you have an opposition.

These parties already exist to some extent - Socialist parties want to redistribute the wealth and I bet that is in their manifesto.

So many other things albeit still hard are easier to do. Like tobin tax or similar, cap on CEO wages and bonuses, unions allowed to flourish, close tax loop holes and "efficiencies", living wage...

[Pres Zount]

...so many other things need to happen first.

For sure. I definitely don't think it's an easy fix, or one that doesn't need other things to happen first.

[HAL 9000]

I dont particularly care that the Queen and her family get a life of privaledge, lots of people do, it is a part of life, unfair but probably inevitable.

It is more what it means for democracy, so I would not be that interested in removing the monarch for the sake of it, just as part of a larger reform to a more democratic system.
Also regarding elected heads of state, they do not have to be cermonial only, we could have a presidentt with real power like the US, Russia or France. I could imagine being motivated to vote in an election for a president.

Right now I dont vote, because there is no obvious difference between the policital parties and because I am more likely to get run over on the way to the polling booth than make a difference.

The monarchy cant last forever, it is a relic waiting to be swept away, just a matter of time.

[Guy Incognito]

its not the monarchy as a whole thats the issue for me here, its just the ridiculous amount of money being spent on the celebrations.
As my wife said before "There are kids without any shoes in this country so i dont feel right spending money on bunting".

The amount of money of the official celebrations is a fuck of a lot but then the amount of money consumers are chucking at it is mind boggling. and no one really gives a fuck, they just think its a way to spend the extra two days holiday. and it isnt two extra days , its one cos they moved the one we usually get in may to june.

Its just a massive sham. And all for a long weekend and a big party at buck house and sodding brian may standing on the top playing his axe. cosmic.
I didnt say this nearly as elequently as the film in the OP.

[Dorothy Wood]

I don't know anything about these things, but I always figured Prince William would phase out royal leadership when he gets to the top. Obviously, it'd be hard to give up so much history in just a snap.

All that pomp employs people at least. Right?

[gdiddy27]

I'd argue that the main political parties represent the popular opinion. So if there's a groundswell of opinion that cats are better than dogs, then we'll see the main parties saying, ''Ive always preferred cats, the other guy probably likes dogs''.

I'd always been quite apathetic about it, until I started to think about it more and realised it's the most insane thing to have a Royal family.

Oh and the history thing, France has history.

I'm now stuck with the image of a poodle permed cosmic ball bag wielding his axe on the top of Buckingham Palace!

[Guy Incognito]

Originally Posted by Dorothy Wood

All that pomp employs people at least. Right?

True but thats wages we are paying for so that someone looks after liz's corgis 24/7 for example, that could be going to pay teachers/nurses etc.
I am of the opinion that we dont need such a massive monarchy operation, people would still visit because of the history. Scale it all down,big time.
And i realise that its not the royal family driving all this jubilee stuff, most of the main members seem to have an awareness of their position and an awareness that they are priveliged.
Its obviously the goverment trying to make a grand statement about this, it would be awesome if the queen came out and said something like "Instead of blowing all this money on celebrations, i'll have a quiet night in with the family to celebrate and you can give all the money to unicef" or something

[Pres Zount]

Originally Posted by gdiddy27

I'd argue that the main political parties represent the popular opinion. So if there's a groundswell of opinion that cats are better than dogs, then we'll see the main parties saying, ''Ive always preferred cats, the other guy probably likes dogs''.

I think the it's more the other way around. The main political parties represent their own opinions, and the opinions of the corporations that control them, and they use their power to sway popular thought in their favour. Any agreement between the two is usually either orchestrated by the powers that be, or forced onto them because they know when it's best to flee a sinking ship. Political parties around the world slowly coming around to the idea of gay marriage is a recent example.

[gdiddy27]

Isn't gay marriage an example of parties being swayed by popular opinion?

The Tories and gay marriage don't go together, but david Cameron is being forced to change Party Policy, as except for a few Christian nuts, people are now happy to see gay marriage.

If the other way round was the case it could be quite worrying. That'd imply the general public is homophobic and Cameron is blazing a trail for gay rights!

[Adam]

I am inclined to agree more with Simon Jenkins writing about the issue here.

As a Green Party member socialist I have fairly polarised views on most things but the monarch is a take or leave - although technically I should be really against it like my peers. Although I am roped in to some protest at Hyde Park on Sunday.

[Pres Zount]

Originally Posted by gdiddy27

Isn't gay marriage an example of parties being swayed by popular opinion?

The Tories and gay marriage don't go together, but david Cameron is being forced to change Party Policy, as except for a few Christian nuts, people are now happy to see gay marriage.

If the other way round was the case it could be quite worrying. That'd imply the general public is homophobic and Cameron is blazing a trail for gay rights!

Gay marriage is an example of political parties knowing when to abandon really unpopular opinions, because to do otherwise would be politically stupid.

The royal family is a relic that really should have been gotten rid of a long time ago, and while I'd wager that most people in the UK and commonwealth countries don't want an unelected head of state with very real and undemocratic powers, it's unpopular at the moment to be against "the queen" or the idea of a British royal family. The powerful political parties and most of the media seem to separate the two, and it just so happens that people are apathetic enough to go along with it.

When 80% of the UK is calling for the royals to be thrown out of the palace and have their powers revoked, then the Tories and Labour will both suddenly be of the opinion that a royal family is a bad idea. They only 'reflect' popular opinion when they have to, and when it's in their best interest, until then they do everything in their power to make their opinions the normal ones.

[Randetica]

we stopped having a monarchy a good while ago and we still live!

[Adam]

I don't think anyone is saying the world will stop turning if the monarch ceases to exist

I think this issue comes down to people who care vs. people who are apathetic. Like everything really

My big thing is our current waste of natural resources. To others that is way down the list of first sorting out the richoor ratio which to others is way down the list of getting the economy back on track which to others is way down the list of seeing an end to monopolies who don't pay tax which to others is way down the of ending the monarch which to others is way down the list of curtailing our our waste of natural resources which to others is way down the list of ending poverty which to others is way down the list of free healthcare for all which to others is way down the list of making sure the whole world is connected to the web which is others is way down the list of first making sure the web stays free and open which to others is way down the list of stopping artists not getting paid for the content they produce which to others is way down the list...

...you get the picture. There is a pretty big list.

[HAL 9000]

I agree that, when considering the Monarchy as a matter of wasted resource, it is a very small issue in the grand scheme of things. It may even be true that they do offer good value for money, I dont care about that either way.

I think that the issue of having a monarchy is, however, an important part of the wider issue of the UK's democracy, and this is where I think there is room for change. MPs expenses, links to media and general MP scumbaggery are all high priorities to the public at the moment.

I dont think it would take that much for the public to demand sweeping changes to our governments structure.

All these issues could be addressed - unelected (including hereditary ) members of the second house, unelected real head of state (ie the PM is put forward by the winning party), having an unelected and hereditary ceremonial head of state, the existance of a privaledged state religion and tax payer funding for faith schools.

The last one may seem odd if you are not a parent, but I kid you not, I am having to move house at the moment becuase the best school in my current neighbourhood, which I pay for with my taxes, will not accept my 3 year old because he is not a Catholic. True story

[yeahwho]

I wasn't going to post on this thread because living in Seattle USA I am so immersed in coffee, jeans and flannel I haven't really a clue nor flavor of the Royals function.

But.

The NYTimes just published a 4 way debate titled Why Do Americans Love Royalty?
and I figured some of you might enjoy the quick 4 reads. Not really a debate, just some queerly odd love for the Royals.

Gotta Love the Pomp and Circumstance

A Long History of Royal Watchers

All the Elements of a Super Narrative

One Word: Diana!

of course as usual the comments section gives the proper balance,

"Americans" don't "love royalty"; the media do.

Correction: Why do white Americans love royalty? Don't embarrass the rest of us with sweeping statements.

'Cause they can stay white, the fantasy of those Americans who "want their country back"?

Love royalty? Me? Ha! My forefathers fought a bloody, nasty war to be free of these thugs. After all, historically, a monarch is just the most successful thug in the land.

blah blah woof woof

[gdiddy27]

Looking from the outside probably gives you are more objective view, unlike these 'debates'.

[Guy Incognito]

well its going to fucking rain all weekend.

madness are doing "our house" at the big bash.

i wanted to paint me shed this weekend but its going to fucking rain all weekend.

dont you think bunting is a much ruder sounding word than it actually means?

god save the sex pistols.

its going to fucking rain all weekend.

[gdiddy27]

Shame you were born with the wrong name, could have got Brian May to paint your shed for you.

I've actually got a shed to put up.....but I'm heading to the lakes far away from a TV.

I'm gonna bore my dear lady about why the Rhyme and Reason tour never happened after Mike D's cycle accident and Rage breaking up, the gap conspiracy and quasar rather than see thousands of unions jacks all over the place like Nick Griffin sex rash!

Peace and DEMOCRATIC love.

x

[venusvenus123]

Oh dear, god is reigning on her parade.

[rirv]

I think it's quite good that we have had a Queen who has been head of state through such changing times and has liaised with so many Prime Ministers, from Churchill to Cameron. That's worth something. But this jubilee business - I ain't paying any attention to it whatsoever. Apathy in the UK!

[Adam]

I went to the Thames (I live next to it though), then it rained so head back.

A lot of the boats pulled into the docks near me and with the rain, cold and long wait to get in, ambulances were called taking some to hospital with hypothermia. Poor guys.

Queen got off at tower tho I believe which is a mile or two before me.

It was alright I suppose. North side of the river seemed to be busier - posh gits!

[Guy Incognito]

Apparently there was an internet campaign that passed me by to get "God Save The Queen" by the Sex Pistols to top of the charts this week. It reached number 80.

Its not raining today. shedtastic.

I watched a bit of the celebrations yesterday. hardly fair to make two really old people stand in the pissing rain catching pneumonia watching a load of fucking boats.

There was another thing on where there were a lot of horses from round the world doing a show that was actually all right. I must be getting old.

[abbott]

I love this Jubilee tradition.

The problem I have with tradition is I got none.

I wish this was an old school Jubilee though: often Jubilee Bible In the Hebrew Scriptures, a year of rest to be observed by the Israelites every 50th year, during which slaves were to be set free, alienated property restored to the former owners, and the lands left untilled.

[yeahwho]

My sister has a tradition of moving back in with the parents every half of a year, it looks like that one will be around for 50 years or so.

Not too sure if it can be propagandized into a jubilee.