Vaccine Nation

HAL 9000 · #1 02-04-2009, 08:31 AM

Didn’t really watch the documentary as is was made by the AIDS DENIALIST and alternative health fraud Gary Null.

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/null.html

http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2008/04/now_its_officialgary_null_hiv.php

http://www.garynull.com/GNbooks.php

Edit – I would normally consider it a logical fallacy to assume because a person is wrong about A they are also wrong about ‘B’ (Poisoning the Well Fallacy or some form of ad hominem). In this case though it is relevant because the guy is saying that traditional / ‘evidence based’ medicine does not work in order to create a market for his bogus pills and supplements (as shown here - http://www.gnhealthyliving.com/Scripts/default.asp).

ms.peachy · #2 02-04-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAL 9000

made by the AIDS DENIALIST and alternative health fraud Gary Null.

Oh lordy, I didn't realise that nutjob was behind this. I probably should have guessed though.

fucktopgirl · #3 02-04-2009, 06:47 PM

Heh, the guy just like alternative medecine , sport, vitamines, yoga. He don't like pharmaceutical drugs and companies because they do exist to make profit.

So they objective is not your health per se, but to make monayyyyy!

I think it is a ok view.

About the aids things, i have to go check the video.

ms.peachy · #4 02-04-2009, 06:54 PM

He is a fraud and a peddler of pseudoscience who misrepresents himself and his qualifications, and makes a ton of money off of vulnerable, desperate people.

fucktopgirl · #5 02-04-2009, 07:00 PM

^ha, that what pharmaceutical companies does too!

Being healthy without the main stream health system is alright, ya know.
Exercice, eating good food, having a good way of thinking , eliminating stress is all good for you.

I don't think his view is hurting anyone, if you don't like it, just change the channel.

HAL 9000 · #6 02-05-2009, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fucktopgirl

Heh, the guy just like alternative medecine , sport, vitamines, yoga. He don't like pharmaceutical drugs and companies because they do exist to make profit.

So they objective is not your health per se, but to make monayyyyy!

I think it is a ok view.

About the aids things, i have to go check the video.

It is true that pharmaceuticals seek to make money, but that does not make them evil! They are heavily regulated which means all the treatments they (and the health professionals) offer have to undergo two tests (hence evidence based medicine).

1. They have to demonstrate that they offer a health benefit greater than that of a similarly administered placebo

2. They have to understand the side effects and benefits of any treatment.

The word 'alternative' in front of a health pill or supplement means it has FAILED TEST 1 and has not had to undergo test 2. I wonder what studies have been done on the long term impact of 'Dr' Null's "Detox package" or his "Brainy Pills". Whilst vaccines have been shown not to cause things like autism, these treatments have not been tested at all? So here is the issue - how is it that so many people including yourself, end up being more suspicious of the tested and regulated treatments than the untested and unregulated ones? Everyone in the industry is seeking to make money, which is why controls, testing, monitoring, peer review and regulation are important - vaccines are subject to such a regulatory regime.

This is not to say that alternative treatment does not have a place in medicine, indeed, any doctor will tell you the benefit of healthy eating, stress reduction and exercise (and placebo treatments may have a place too), but what guys like this do is tell you not to take treatments that have been proven to be effective and are subject to tight regulation and instead buy their products which can not been shown to have benefits and which no understanding of side effects exist. He makes money by telling you to stop well regulated effective treatments and start unregulated ineffective ones.

That does not seem harmless to me and in the case of the vaccine bullshit - people (mostly children) are getting sick and dying as a result.

ms.peachy · #7 02-05-2009, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAL 9000

That does not seem harmless to me and in the case of the vaccine bullshit - people (mostly children) are getting sick and dying as a result.

Spot on. People not vaccinating their children puts my child's health at risk as a result, by compromising herd immunity. I have zero patience for that.

fucktopgirl · #8 02-05-2009, 08:25 AM

People rely too much on the medical system for their health. Too much pills are swallow , and this for anything.

There is an exces of pills consumption, and this at an early age. The herds things might be true but ya know this is the only argument that people who believe in vaccin are saying, ALL the time.

Like i said before, we have to be aware that nowadays, there is too much vaccins , too soon and for about anything. So, for me, this is a proof of the will to make profit. Vaccins for cold and chicken pox, that the proof that something wrong.

Hal9000, i am suspicious of the drugs companies because all their studies are back by them, so no objectivity there. Their regulated, their hired the scientifics who will make the report. I have no confidence whatsoever in big corporation because they don't care about human health really, they care about PROFIT.

SO, maybe vaccins did some good at one time, but now, they pushed it too far in my opinion.

Oh, Misspeachy, if you have no patience for people who don't have the same view as you do, don't waste your time, go on...Get your kids all the shots and be safe and happy.

To each their own.

HAL 9000 · #9 02-05-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fucktopgirl

To each their own.

Unfortunately not because your actions (assuming you are not having your kid(s) vaccinated) are increasing the chances of my kids getting sick. Also you do not own your children so much as have a duty of care – it is not fair for them to be put in danger by your beliefs, they are innocent.

I am not saying all vaccines are necessary – you may be correct in saying that there are too many on the market. In the UK there is a publicly run vaccination program covering just the essentials (I don’t think Chicken Pox is included but I could be wrong) – I guess there is something similar where you live and you and your family should certainly have those.

I don’t know much about what vaccines available but if a vaccine against chicken pox is available and effective then great – getting chicken pox is not nice and it is dangerous (you can die of it). I suspect the technology did not exist for such a vaccine when we were younger which is why you never had it.

Quote:

Like i said before, we have to be aware that nowadays, there is too much vaccins , too soon and for about anything. So, for me, this is a proof of the will to make profit. Vaccins for cold and chicken pox, that the proof that something wrong.

It is not proof that something is wrong unless you can point to an independent, double blind and peer reviewed study demonstrating that these vaccines are not effective (or at least not cost effective). If you can do this, then you are correct but if no such data exists then you are probably wrong! Rather than watching youtube vids – you should be looking for and reading these papers, find the study that backs your position or admit you are probably wrong.

Quote:

There is an exces of pills consumption, and this at an early age. The herds things might be true but ya know this is the only argument that people who believe in vaccin are saying, ALL the time.

You cant blame people for repeatedly using an argument that is true! Lets be clear – responsible people are put in danger by others who are not getting vaccinated. We are angry about it – that is why they keep going on about it.

I dont drink and drive and I would sure be angry at the drunk driver who runs down my kids.

EN[i]GMA · #10 02-07-2009, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fucktopgirl

Heh, the guy just like alternative medecine , sport, vitamines, yoga. He don't like pharmaceutical drugs and companies because they do exist to make profit.

So they objective is not your health per se, but to make monayyyyy!

And you think the guy who made this video doesn't make money?

You think the people in the New Age health movement do this stuff out of charity?

Or do you think they just have created a business to pray on people like you, people skeptical of "big business"?