The new Hollywood 'romance' is Pro-Life

[Kid Presentable]

Not that I recall a huge amount of abortions in film or television, but with shit like Knocked-Up, Juno and shit, they're all going to have the kid or contemplate giving it up for adoption at worst.

It's as true-to-life as a street full of bums and garbage men bursting into chorus.

[abcdefz]

Maybe because abortion is rarely romantic or funny?

[taquitos]

The garbage man can!!

[Kid Presentable]

Originally Posted by abcdefz

Maybe because abortion is rarely romantic or funny?

Not saying it should or could be. But Hollywood is one pro-life motherfucker.

[abcdefz]

Pffft.

[Kid Presentable]

pffft what? Keep typing.

[abcdefz]

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[Kid Presentable]

So you see my point, then. Suspending ones disbelief now entails audiences being convinced that women never choose an abortion. On the flipside, I suppose it wouldn't make much money, though. It's sort of like the Tampax ads where the liquid was blue.

[abcdefz]

I think it's probably more of a story structure thing than anything.

To have an abortion in a movie it'd pretty much have to be a drama, for one thing. I can't imagine it being a romance -- there would
have to be something medically wrong if it were a romance; I don't know how likable two characters could be who chose an abortion
for convenience's sake.

There's an abortion in Grace of My Heart that's strictly a choice thing. Eric Stolz cheats on Illeana Douglas, so she gets an abortion
and a divorce.

But if you think lack of abortions in films reflects some sort of pro-life sentiment in Hollywood and a strictly business mentality,
you're mad.

[Kid Presentable]

Yeah, see I'm not saying romance as a genre. Romance as the general story-telling device that exists in a majority of films. A life that's more ideal, the happy ending, the big pay-off. I wouldn't expect anybody to make a comedy about abortion ("See a movie that sucks!").

The staple Hollywood 'romances' would be 'guy gets girl', or 'girl makes it on her own', 'machine travels back through time and jumps into molten metal', 'penguin wins surfing contest' and so on. And you can add 'she keeps it because it's right no matter how hard it might seem for her'.

And yeah, I do think it reflects a pro-life mentality. Shitloads of people pay to see this type of stuff. And the films barely indulge the white elephant in the room. Plus, them shits are filling theatres. So it is about money, for sure.

[beastieangel01]

Originally Posted by abcdefz

I think it's probably more of a story structure thing than anything.

...

But if you think lack of abortions in films reflects some sort of pro-life sentiment in Hollywood and a strictly business mentality,
you're mad.

yep.

[Kid Presentable]

So a lot of films have abortions in them?

[abcdefz]

Are you willfully missing the point, or what?

Few abortions in films (and television) does NOT mean that most people in the industry are pro-life.

It means that most people in the industry know that if you make movies in which women just "happen" to get an abortion, those movies
will probably lose money.

That's all. That is all it means. That is all.

Otherwise, every third episode of Sex in the City would've had one of the girls stumbling out of a Planned Parenthood clinic on her way to a latte.

[ET]

It might not be in the movies but actresses have abortions all the time. They do it in between their collagen injections and lattes.

[Kid Presentable]

Originally Posted by abcdefz

Are you willfully missing the point, or what?

Missing the point. Ironic.

Hollywood equals the entertainment-dispensing mainstream film industry. And what I'm saying is that Hollywood has relied on romanticised versions of life in the past to get and maintain audiences. And the latest romanticised version of life (based on the trend of up-the-duff female leads) happens to show women who would do anything but get an abortion when faced with an unwanted pregnancy. It's not a functional "nah abortion won't work in this film" idea. It's the idea that these films do big audiences all while Hollywood seems content to let people believe this is how it always works out.

I'm not saying put abortions in movies that don't need them. I'm saying that where these modern stories of accidental pregnancy present a romantic view of life, it's often built around the idea that the woman in question would never dare get an abortion. Or considered it, but it was far too unsavoury. It's an observation. I don't see how you can deny it unless you show me a bunch of movies where abortion was presented as a real choice without some vilification.

A film about abortion won awards at Cannes. That highlights my point. The mainstream dollar-chugging movie industry would never dare to give its audience enough credit to even confront them with the reality of the issue. I'm just saying: Hollywood is one Pro-Life motherfucker. Baby gets born.

[abcdefz]

And I maintain it's a commercial value, not a moral one.

[Kid Presentable]

Yeah cool. I don't know that you believe commercial and moral values to be independent, since a few posts up you said abortions in films wouldn't sell.

[MC Moot]

4 luni, 3 saptamâni si 2 zile ...a tough,hard watch...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1032846/

[abcdefz]

Originally Posted by Kid Presentable

Yeah cool. I don't know that you believe commercial and moral values to be independent, since a few posts up you said abortions in films wouldn't sell.

You don't think the entertainment industry has ever pandered?

Ah hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!


*wipes tears*

[Schmeltz]

Originally Posted by abcdefz

To have an abortion in a movie it'd pretty much have to be a drama, for one thing. I can't imagine it being a romance -- there would have to be something medically wrong if it were a romance; I don't know how likable two characters could be who chose an abortion for convenience's sake.

High Fidelity, yo. I hated that movie, but still.

[abcdefz]

Good one.

-- but even in that, it was framed in a kind of tragic way. It was also in the past, it was offscreen, and both characters regretted it, etc.

I think what KP wants is arguing for is to see no-remorse, just-for-convenience abortions in entertainment.

[Kid Presentable]

Originally Posted by abcdefz

Good one.

-- but even in that, it was framed in a kind of tragic way. It was also in the past, it was offscreen, and both characters regretted it, etc.

I think what KP wants is arguing for is to see no-remorse, just-for-convenience abortions in entertainment.

No I'm not. I was just making an observation. Hollywood right now is a Pro-Life motherfucker. Baby gets born. Always.

A *wipes tears* will never cancel out contradicting yourself, either. What did you mean, exactly? You claimed that movies with abortions wouldn't make money, and that there's no deeper meaning to it than that. I've been saying that these new abortion-free movies happen to make money, whilst apparently satisfying some greater moral good. Then you claim the lack of abortions in films helps them make money. I counter that you don't hold them to independent anyway, and you drop "ahahahahaha" because you don't actually have a rebuttal, or a point.

[MC Moot]

Oh, Michael...Michael, you are blind...It wasn't a miscarriage...It was an abortion...An abortion, Michael...Just like our marriage is an abortion. Something that's unholy and evil. I didn't want your son, Michael! I wouldn't bring another one of you sons into this world! It was an abortion, Michael! It was a son Michael! A son! And I had it killed because this must all end!

[Kid Presentable]

Fuck, the first time I recall thinking about this is watching the Jeff Goldblum Fly movie.

[abcdefz]

Originally Posted by Kid Presentable

No I'm not. I was just making an observation. Hollywood right now is a Pro-Life motherfucker. Baby gets born. Always.

A *wipes tears* will never cancel out contradicting yourself, either. What did you mean, exactly? You claimed that movies with abortions wouldn't make money, and that there's no deeper meaning to it than that. I've been saying that these new abortion-free movies happen to make money, whilst apparently satisfying some greater moral good. Then you claim the lack of abortions in films helps them make money. I counter that you don't hold them to independent anyway, and you drop "ahahahahaha" because you don't actually have a rebuttal, or a point.

Your thinking is pretty jumbled.

I'm saying that lack of, let's say "unsympathetic" abortions in entertainment media doesn't indicate that the industry has pro-life values. I think
it indicates that including protagonists having "unsympathetic" abortions would be box office death, because of what it perceives as deeply
imbeded cultural values about such things.

So it doesn't reflect their values (other than commerce); it reflects their perception (or research) about national cultural values. That's what
I've argued consistently -- you're the one who's changing:

Your initial thesis is that it reflects on Hollywood's values, and I say no. Later in the game your wording implies whether it reflects any values
at all, which is a very different animal.

Hence: pfffffffffffffffft.

[Kid Presentable]

So with these knocked-up-women films (Juno, Knocked Up, Smart People) being the thing to do right now in Hollywood, you're not in the least bit bemused by the fact that nobody has even bothered to approach the situation somewhat realistically?

What are Hollywoods values? Are they commercial? I'd say so. And they maintain commercial viability by appeasing the audiences. And the audiences moral values are going to determine what sells. Therefore, the spate of films in which the female lead falls pregnant and doesn't get an abortion (while being a crucial plot point, granted) really sums up my argument.

Hollywood is a Pro-Life motherfucker (probably because its audience likes it that way, but moreso just because by its very nature Hollywood plays it safe). Baby gets born (because that's the only way it sees fit to present the situation).

Edit: What's with the use of the term "Unsympathetic" abortion, anyway? That wording again points to what I'm saying. These films make all instances of abortion seem "unsympathetic". Especially if you consider the whole audience (which may include a diverse range of women and men affected by the abortion issue; young girls who are impressionable; women who have been through the process). The very idea that a character could compromise such a 'happy' ending by making such a choice constitutes a pretty unsympathetic approach in my eyes.

[bigblu89]

Most of the movie going population likes movies with a happy ending.

A lady deciding to have an abortion in most cases is not a happy ending.

It would be like having one of those "Meteor Hitting the Earth" movies end with Will Smith and Ben Affleck deciding that saving the world is just too much trouble, and decide to give up.

[bigblu89]

Originally Posted by Kid Presentable

So with these knocked-up-women films (Juno, Knocked Up, Smart People) being the thing to do right now in Hollywood, you're not in the least bit bemused by the fact that nobody has even bothered to approach the situation somewhat realistically?

What are Hollywoods values? Are they commercial? I'd say so. And they maintain commercial viability by appeasing the audiences. And the audiences moral values are going to determine what sells. Therefore, the spate of films in which the female lead falls pregnant and doesn't get an abortion (while being a crucial plot point, granted) really sums up my argument.

Hollywood is a Pro-Life motherfucker (probably because its audience likes it that way, but moreso just because by its very nature Hollywood plays it safe). Baby gets born (because that's the only way it sees fit to present the situation).

Edit: What's with the use of the term "Unsympathetic" abortion, anyway? That wording again points to what I'm saying. These films make all instances of abortion seem "unsympathetic". Especially if you consider the whole audience (which may include a diverse range of women and men affected by the abortion issue; young girls who are impressionable; women who have been through the process). The very idea that a character could compromise such a 'happy' ending by making such a choice constitutes a pretty unsympathetic approach in my eyes.

This whole statement answered you own question.

Abortion is rarely the decision, because it would be a huge downer in a movie.

It has nothing to do with pro-life/pro-choice, and everything to do with trying to make an entertaining movie that people would plunk down $10 to see, and then another $20 when it comes out on DVD.

How great or funny would Knocked Up have been if the Grey's Anatomy chick decided to have an abortion? #1, the movie would've be pretty pointless, and #2, it would've also have only been 20 minutes long.

[Lyman Zerga]

i thought everything in hollywood movies is unrealistic cheesepoop

[bigblu89]

Originally Posted by Lyman Zerga

i thought everything in hollywood movies is unrealistic cheesepoop

Yeah. I can't tell if the original post is just bashing "Hollywood" type movies for always looking on the bright side, or if he really thinks there should be more light hearted comedies that involve abortion.

He mentions Knocked Up and Juno, and in the "real world" in both of those cases, there's a good chance that baby get aborted. But if KP's looking for more reality out of his Hollywood Movies, he's going to be waiting a long time.