so i want to beat the crap out of one of my friends ...

[TAL]

Originally Posted by Joey Styles

CATFIGHT!!

.

[Knuckles]

The people who are saying "it is what it is" are sadly missing the point.

Sure, kids are going to do things like experiment with alcohol and drugs but that doesn't mean you should condone it. This lady is not just condoning it she is facilitating it.

That's criminal behavior. She needs to be stopped.

Dharma, I think you did the right thing. I also feel you need to check up on the situation to make sure it doesn't continue. If it does it's time to get the authorities involved. I can't imagine how I would feel if a tragedy occurred with one of these children and I hadn't done anything to stop it.

[ms.peachy]

Originally Posted by Adam

I come from an Irish catholic family so maybe I'm different cus we are born into guinness, but I was given booze at 15 by my family.

There is a world of difference between being allowed alcohol by your parents, where it is regulated and integrated as part of a family occasion, and someone into whose care you have entrusted your child giving them booze regularly without your knowledge. Heaven help that woman when/if the girl's parents find out. If it was my kid, I'd rip her spine out through her throat. How dare she undermine their authority in this way, when they have placed her in this position of trust.

This friend needs beating in the head, I tell you. I was talking with a colleague about this today. As many of you already know, I work directly with kids 12-16 in a mentoring program. I can't for the life of me imagine how fucking insane and stupid I would have to be for it to ever occur to me to offer them alcohol. Not only would I lose my job, but I'd be barred from working with young people as it would turn up on a CRB check anyplace else I applied, so I wouldn't be able to get another one either. When I told me colleague about this, her jaw pretty much hit the floor. So very, very unacceptable, on so may levels.

[NoFenders]

Good job Dharma.

[QueenAdrock]

Sadly enough, this shit happened all the time at my old high school. The parents all wanted to be seen as 'cool' to their kids, and knew that they drank at that age, so they gave them alcohol at parties. Their reasoning was the same, they're going to do it anyways, so might as well make them safe. I've heard the argument that it's the same thing as giving your kids condoms. It's not. It's like giving your kid a hooker and condoms at the same time and telling them to be safe. If it was say, giving the kid an at-home breathalyser kit to keep in the car to make sure he's safe to drive home, that's the same thing as condoms. "I don't want you to do it, but if you're in the situation that you need it, I'd rather you be safe than sorry."

There's a big difference between not wanting them to do it, but giving them the means to be safe, and actually facilitating the problem. Giving them the alcohol and saying "Oh, well, you're going to do it anyways," is a cop-out. What if cocaine is popular in the community? Are you just going to buy it for them and say, "Go nuts, I'd rather have you do it in the house than on the street"? I mean, where is the line drawn?

[ToucanSpam]

Originally Posted by QueenAdrock

Giving them the alcohol and saying "Oh, well, you're going to do it anyways," is a cop-out. What if cocaine is popular in the community? Are you just going to buy it for them and say, "Go nuts, I'd rather have you do it in the house than on the street"? I mean, where is the line drawn?

I respect your point of view on this situation, but this is a logical fallacy. Cocaine is illegal to purchase and traffic, alcohol is not (unless to a minor). So I guess the line is drawn by the law in this case.


Buying booze in the massive quantity that the OP suggested is pretty questionable, but you won't be able to police underage drinking unless you buy it for them and host parties. Yes, it is bad to buy booze for kids in the first place. Yes, the parents are making a questionable decision to host a party with booze for kids. Are the parents trying to protect their kids by hosting a party so they can make sure nothing goes wrong? Yes.


Frankly, I think people need to lighten up about underage drinking. It happens, it is UNSTOPPABLE, and it is better to have parents policing it than have them on the street where really scary shit can happen to them.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by ToucanSpam

I respect your point of view on this situation, but this is a logical fallacy. Cocaine is illegal to purchase and traffic, alcohol is not (unless to a minor). So I guess the line is drawn by the law in this case.


Buying booze in the massive quantity that the OP suggested is pretty questionable, but you won't be able to police underage drinking unless you buy it for them and host parties. Yes, it is bad to buy booze for kids in the first place. Yes, the parents are making a questionable decision to host a party with booze for kids. Are the parents trying to protect their kids by hosting a party so they can make sure nothing goes wrong? Yes.


Frankly, I think people need to lighten up about underage drinking. It happens, it is UNSTOPPABLE, and it is better to have parents policing it than have them on the street where really scary shit can happen to them.

This is a pretty naive statement.

My brother started drinking at a young age and it lead to drugs later...which later lead to an overdose..then death, if you have never experienced head on what the consequences are of underage drinking. I suggest you say nothing.

Thanks Knuckles for bringing the topic back to a more mature level.

Your only a child once..

I just don't understand the need for 15 year old girls to drink hardcore alcohol THREE TIMES A WEEK!

[QueenAdrock]

Originally Posted by ToucanSpam

I respect your point of view on this situation, but this is a logical fallacy. Cocaine is illegal to purchase and traffic, alcohol is not (unless to a minor). So I guess the line is drawn by the law in this case.

The kid's a minor, so yes, it is still illegal to do.

But to say "Oh, if we keep it at my house, they'll be safe," is faulty reasoning too. I'm sure those kids want to take booze to an empty house, with no parents, so they can drink, play music, have sex, be as obnoxious as they want. Just because parents give them booze to be safe at their house doesn't mean they'll always be there. I knew plenty of kids in high school where their parents bought them alcohol and wanted them to stay there to be safe. They took the alcohol to another friend's house, whose parents were gone, partied there, got busted by the cops. We didn't have a basketball team that year because they all received drinking citations and were ineligible for after school activities.

I never got in trouble for drinking, and my parents didn't supply me with alcohol. I reckon it's because they raised me well. They taught me about all things in moderation, ever since I was little. It seems like parents give up on parenting and rather give in to the whims of their children and say "Well, do it here so you're safe."

[ToucanSpam]

Originally Posted by Dharma

This is a pretty naive statement.

There was nothing naive about what I said. You can disagree with it, but don't patronize me or ever think you're better than I am. Got it?



Alcohol three times a week is ridiculous, however, adult or not. I missed that part.

And QA, I was raised well enough to know moderation, too. My folks never supplied me with booze until I was of legal age in Canada. I am of the opinion that a parent can still teach a kid moderation in the circumstances described in this thread, with the exception of the three times a week foolishness. In this case it seems like not even the adult understands moderation.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by ToucanSpam

There was nothing naive about what I said. You can disagree with it, but don't patronize me or ever think you're better than I am. Got it?

Shut the fuck up.

[ToucanSpam]

Uh, no.

[ms.peachy]

Originally Posted by ToucanSpam

I am of the opinion that a parent can still teach a kid moderation in the circumstances described in this thread

The person who is the subject of this thread is not the child's parent, she is someone the parent has entrusted to tutor (presumably not in "how to hold your liquor".) The abuse of this trust is vile and pathetic. No one has said that a parent can't teach their child to drink in moderation; what has been said is that it is totally inappropriate for adults in a position of authority to provide alcohol for minors for the purposes of 'partying'.

[Lex Diamonds]

To be honest when I was 15 I was halfway to being a fully fledged alcoholic. A lot of fucked up shit happened at that time in my life and I drank on the daily. Still do in fact. And back then during school holidays damn right me and my friends would drink hard liquor every day, it was pretty much the norm.

Basically I guess the main thing to take from this is let the kid do what she wants, there's a chance (if she's lucky) she'll turn out like me.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by The Padster

To be honest when I was 15 I was halfway to being a fully fledged alcoholic. A lot of fucked up shit happened at that time in my life and I drank on the daily. Still do in fact. And back then during school holidays damn right me and my friends would drink hard liquor every day, it was pretty much the norm.

Basically I guess the main thing to take from this is let the kid do what she wants, there's a chance (if she's lucky) she'll turn out like me.

Haaaaaaaaa

You're a prime example of why I reacted the way that I did.

Honestly, I know my reaction would have been different if it three boys instead of three girls. I think I would have walked away.

[wanton wench]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Honestly, I know my reaction would have been different if it three boys instead of three girls. I think I would have walked away.

not that it matters.......but you just lost my respect.

*walks away*

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by wanton wench

not that it matters.......but you just lost my respect.

*walks away*

I would have had the initial argument I had with her, but I don't think I would have gone back to confiscate the alcohol.

Boys are a lot harder to control than girls, it was just that protective side of me that thought "girls that age shouldn't be doing this" ...

I don't think badly of Paddy when he mentions drinking at a young age, he also grew up in europe ... Where you start drinking at a younger age.

I can't really explain in words how much this has bothered me, I can't really honesly for sure say if they were boys I would have cared less. But ...an overwhelming sense of protection I never knew I had has surfaced these past few days, and maybe I will do some good with it.

You never really know how your going to react, until it really happens.

[TAL]

I was 19 the first time I got drunk.

[Dorothy Wood]

Toucan, I don't know where you got your over-inflated ego from, but you're definitely being naive about this topic.

The fact of the matter is, barring any moral misgivings about teen drinking, alcohol is detrimental to cognitive development. Yes, kids drink and get drunk...but not all of them do and not all of them should. Particularly if this girl is already showing signs of dependence. I said it before, but her brain is still developing and mapping these behaviors that will likely stick with her for life. If she's not prone to addiction, she may be alright, but it doesn't discount the health effects she could suffer or the psychological (rather than physical) dependence she could develop.

teenagers are not adults, no matter how much they try to convince you.

also, my friend's mother provided alcohol to me and our other friends sometimes when we were around 17/18, but that didn't stop us from drinking other times and without supervision. and it also didn't stop my friend from binge drinking and getting herself into dangerous situations with men on more than one occasion. :/


anyway, high five to all the mature people in here who realize this is something that shouldn't just have been let go. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the "it is what it is" statement. what does that even mean? what is it?

[taquitos]

Booze! Yeah! I'm drinking a beer!

[taquitos]

beer

[Dorothy Wood]

put it away! you're only 14 years old god damn it!

[taquitos]

1st result from GIS for "so i want to beat the crap out of one of my friends"

[KingOfPop]

Grown-ups shouldn't give kids "Jesus Juice".

[funk63]

Shut the hell up Michael Jackson.

[Dharma]

I should hook MJ up with my douchebag friend.

[KingOfPop]

What?! I have opinions too! I think grown-ups who give kids booze are poopy!

[RobMoney$]

Originally Posted by The Padster

To be honest when I was 15 I was halfway to being a fully fledged alcoholic. A lot of fucked up shit happened at that time in my life and I drank on the daily. Still do in fact. And back then during school holidays damn right me and my friends would drink hard liquor every day, it was pretty much the norm.

Basically I guess the main thing to take from this is let the kid do what she wants, there's a chance (if she's lucky) she'll turn out like me.

You know what, I was doing coke, drinking, and smoking dust joints at least four times a week when I was 15.

...and luckily by the time I was 22 I was in AA & NA trying to figure out whose attention I was trying to get and why I was so pissed off at the world.

[checkyourprez]

Originally Posted by Dharma

I would have had the initial argument I had with her, but I don't think I would have gone back to confiscate the alcohol.

Boys are a lot harder to control than girls, it was just that protective side of me that thought "girls that age shouldn't be doing this" ...

I don't think badly of Paddy when he mentions drinking at a young age, he also grew up in europe ... Where you start drinking at a younger age.

I can't really explain in words how much this has bothered me, I can't really honesly for sure say if they were boys I would have cared less. But ...an overwhelming sense of protection I never knew I had has surfaced these past few days, and maybe I will do some good with it.

You never really know how your going to react, until it really happens.

There are some definite contradictions within this statement.

First if they were boys you wouldn't care do take further action after the initial confrontation? Yet some of your reasoning behind doing what your doing is that it was your brother who died from an OD brought on by early drinking and drug use. That doesn't make sense to me.

Secondly the "he also grew up in europe" part. How does that change anything? Are Europeans aliens? Are they a different species? It's ok for Europeans to drink earlier but not Americans? Why?

I dont have a problem with your stance overall, just playing devils advocate on those points where I feel you contradicted yourself.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by checkyourprez

There are some definite contradictions within this statement.

First if they were boys you wouldn't care do take further action after the initial confrontation? Yet some of your reasoning behind doing what your doing is that it was your brother who died from an OD brought on by early drinking and drug use. That doesn't make sense to me.

Secondly the "he also grew up in europe" part. How does that change anything? Are Europeans aliens? Are they a different species? It's ok for Europeans to drink earlier but not Americans? Why?

I dont have a problem with your stance overall, just playing devils advocate on those points where I feel you contradicted yourself.

Like I mentioned before, it has been hard to express in words how this has affected me. My initial feeling to this ordeal was they are "teenage girls", and that's what bothered me the most.

My brothers passing has changed my views on a lot of things over the past 7 years. It came up during this situation, but he died of a drug OD ... So I was trying not to compare the two ... Even though he did drink at a young age, I was too young to see it to use it as an example.

Different countries have different drinking ages, I could be wrong but I think the UK is 18? and I am not sure about Canada ... So when I get feedback from people in other countries I have to take into account the legal age of drinking in their country. Here in America ... It is 6 years premature which I find reckless and excessive. Somewhere where its 18, they wouldn't find it a big deal.

[checkyourprez]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Like I mentioned before, it has been hard to express in words how this has affected me. My initial feeling to this ordeal was they are "teenage girls", and that's what bothered me the most.

My brothers passing has changed my views on a lot of things over the past 7 years. It came up during this situation, but he died of a drug OD ... So I was trying not to compare the two ... Even though he did drink at a young age, I was too young to see it to use it as an example.

Different countries have different drinking ages, I could be wrong but I think the UK is 18? and I am not sure about Canada ... So when I get feedback from people in other countries I have to take into account the legal age of drinking in their country. Here in America ... It is 6 years premature which I find reckless and excessive. Somewhere where its 18, they wouldn't find it a big deal.

Do you find it reckless because the law says it is, or because you feel the action itself is? If the law was 18 here would you have a problem with it?