I wonder why....

[Tone Capone]

Two french dudes were kidnapped in Iraq with threats to execute them?

[bilbo]

What's your point, besides banal French bashing?

[Bob]

i thought the terrorists loved the french! what the fuck!

[Jasonik]

Well that's one more reason for the French to detest the USA. It's totally Bush's fault because he went in there all cowboy and shit....

[ron989]

They were protesting the fact that Muslims aren't allowed to wear head-coverings in French schools. They threatened to murder the French journalists if the rule wasn't changed.

[Tone Capone]

Originally Posted by ron989

They were protesting the fact that Muslims aren't allowed to wear head-coverings in French schools. They threatened to murder the French journalists if the rule wasn't changed.

oh...

[Tone Capone]

Originally Posted by bilbo

What's your point, besides banal French bashing?

I don't answer any of your questions until you answer me about Iran... you should know that.

[Tone Capone]

Originally Posted by ron989

They were protesting the fact that Muslims aren't allowed to wear head-coverings in French schools. They threatened to murder the French journalists if the rule wasn't changed.

Why are terrorists so concerned about what's going on in france?

[Ace42]

These crazy terrorists. Everyone knows real terrorists only exact reprisals for injustices done upon their people in America!

[Tone Capone]

Originally Posted by Ace42

These crazy terrorists. Everyone knows real terrorists only exact reprisals for injustices done upon their people in America!

what are you blabbing about this time?

[Tone Capone]

It's like the terrorists aren't just happy trying to push their extremist form of Islam in their "holy places" anymore.

[Ace42]

Originally Posted by Tone Capone

It's like the terrorists aren't just happy trying to push their extremist form of Islam in their "holy places" anymore.

They are making a fair point. Banning a muslim girl from wearing a head-scarf would be like banning hissidic jews from having long curly hair, or wearing skull-caps, etc, etc. If Christians weren't allowed to wear crucifixes there would be a riot.

In the UK (and I am pretty sure in the US too) there are laws to prevent religious intolerrance. For example, Sikhs do not need to wear helmets on motorcycles (legally required here) because of the turban. France is being backwards, and they are getting a nasty shock for it - everywhere else has had their religious / ethnic riots (or do you not remember the Black Panthers, etc?) and it seems the Frenchies need to be reminded of the lesson that only such lack of sympathy can bring.

Yeah the terrorists are over-reacting, but then, I'd say that about many 60s activists who secured the liberties we both now enjoy.

[Tone Capone]

Originally Posted by Ace42

They are making a fair point. Banning a muslim girl from wearing a head-scarf would be like banning hissidic jews from having long curly hair, or wearing skull-caps, etc, etc. If Christians weren't allowed to wear crucifixes there would be a riot.

In the UK (and I am pretty sure in the US too) there are laws to prevent religious intolerrance. For example, Sikhs do not need to wear helmets on motorcycles (legally required here) because of the turban. France is being backwards, and they are getting a nasty shock for it - everywhere else has had their religious / ethnic riots (or do you not remember the Black Panthers, etc?) and it seems the Frenchies need to be reminded of the lesson that only such lack of sympathy can bring.

Yeah the terrorists are over-reacting, but then, I'd say that about many 60s activists who secured the liberties we both now enjoy.

Don't compare these idiot terrorists to the Black Panthers thanks.

I sort of see your point though.

[DroppinScience]

Hey, I think I'm gonna kidnap a couple of Iranian journalists here in Canada because Iran deems homosexuality illegal! They gotta legalize homosexuality!

Honestly, these previous hostage cases in Iraq were unconscionable, but their aims actually were logical (withdraw [whatever "coalition" nation]'s troops from Iraq or I kill this dude). Here, they're kidnapping two Frenchman (and France has no involvement in Iraq) to get France to change their internal religious laws.

I don't agree with the law, but this is just plain retarded. Like I said above, I better hold some Iranians hostage so the anti-homosexual law will be changed.

[bilbo]

Originally Posted by Tone Capone

I don't answer any of your questions

That's because you can't, ain't that right Einstein?

[Tone Capone]

Originally Posted by bilbo

That's because you can't, ain't that right Einstein?

WAY TO GO BILBO!!! Damn... I'm totally screwed now!

[Ace42]

Originally Posted by Tone Capone

Don't compare these idiot terrorists to the Black Panthers thanks.

The head of the FBI, Edgar J Hoover, called the BPP "the greatest threat to the internal security of the country."

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/black_panthers.htm

Sounds familiar to what the phedz and the prez said about Al Qaeda doesn't it?

Black Panther point #8@

# WE WANT AN IMMEDIATE END TO ALL WARS OF AGGRESSION.
We believe that the various conflicts which exist around the world stem directly from the aggressive desire of the United States ruling circle and government to force its domination upon the oppressed people of the world. We believe that if the United States government or its lackeys do not cease these aggressive wars it is the right of the people to defend themselves by any means necessary against their aggressors.

http://www.blackpanther.org/TenPoint.htm

terrorist
adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon);

ter·ror·ism Audio pronunciation of "terrorism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

The full expression of this was the violent protest to the brutal police beating of a black man in Watts (Los Angeles), California in the 1965 rebellion that shocked America and set off other such responses to oppression.

http://www.blackpanther.org/legacynew.htm

So let's see... They have similar views to current Islamic terrorists, they used violence to effect political change, and they broke the law.

I'm not saying they were wrong, but they certainly fit the same bill as these terrorists.

[Tone Capone]

Originally Posted by Ace42

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/black_panthers.htm

Sounds familiar to what the phedz and the prez said about Al Qaeda doesn't it?

Black Panther point #8@



http://www.blackpanther.org/TenPoint.htm

terrorist
adj : characteristic of someone who employs terrorism (especially as a political weapon);

ter·ror·ism Audio pronunciation of "terrorism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.



http://www.blackpanther.org/legacynew.htm

So let's see... They have similar views to current Islamic terrorists, they used violence to effect political change, and they broke the law.

I'm not saying they were wrong, but they certainly fit the same bill as these terrorists.

That's interesting...

[bilbo]

Originally Posted by Tone Capone

WAY TO GO BILBO!!!

Settle down partner

[ron989]

This is similar to the train wrecks in Spain a few months ago. Apparently the country was being punished for supporting a government that sent troups into Iraq. So, people blamed the U.S.-supporting government for the death of about 250 people, they voted out this government, and the Spanish troups were pulled out of Iraq. What does this show? Terrorism works.

[Ace42]

Ah, but does it? Terrorism is *supposed* to force people into doing what you want. In effect (and I am sure a lot of terrorists view it like this) it highlights the fact that dispossessed people who are not necessarily heard still can make themselves heard if powerful people try to ignore them.

Terrorism is often just highlighting / drawing attention to an issue in a world where stuff going on hundreds of miles away, or thousands of miles away, or even on your doorstep, might not exist for all that "ordinary" people care. Did the US care about the Kurds when it didn't want a war? Nope. Lots of people still don't care about the Palestinians suffering for decades. Do you think that if Palestinian terrorists *weren't* blowing up chunks of Israel we'd even know about what happens to their countrymen?

Urm... I'm losing my point somewhat. And I am not conding terrorism, it is pretty shitty. But then, ignoring inustices just because they aren't happening to you is quite possibly equally shitty..

[Funkaloyd]

these previous hostage cases in Iraq were unconscionable, but their aims actually were logical (withdraw [whatever "coalition" nation]'s troops from Iraq or I kill this dude). Here, they're kidnapping two Frenchman (and France has no involvement in Iraq) to get France to change their internal religious laws.

It's a law that restricts the liberty of everyone in France, religious dumbasses in particular. I don't see how using terrorism to end those laws is any more retarded than using terrorism to end the occupation.

[DroppinScience]

Originally Posted by Funkaloyd

It's a law that restricts the liberty of everyone in France, religious dumbasses in particular. I don't see how using terrorism to end those laws is any more retarded than using terrorism to end the occupation.

Even then, why Iraq? Couldn't any terrorist groups have done the same thing within France?

And again, if I want Iran to legalize homosexuality, would kidnapping Iranians in foreign soil be the answer?

[Loppfessor]

Originally Posted by Jasonik

Well that's one more reason for the French to detest the USA. It's totally Bush's fault because he went in there all cowboy and shit....

It couldn't possibly be anything the French did...that would just be insanity.

[Funkaloyd]

why Iraq

I think it's likely that the kidnappers didn't even know that they were abducting Frenchmen. When they found out and realized that they couldn't demand the immediate withdrawal of all French forces from Iraq, they came up with this demand.

Dumbass monotheists.

[Tone Capone]

And what do these terrorists think they will accomplish with this????
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

[mcaismyhero]

Originally Posted by gmsisko1

If Al Qaeda walked into France with sticks and stones, france would give in.

(okay it's not that bad) But they did give in too fast in WWII.

They got fucking taken over. They didn't "give in."

[DroppinScience]

Originally Posted by mcaismyhero

They got fucking taken over. They didn't "give in."

And they only got taken over because of geography anyways. If Britain neighboured Germany, they'd likely have fallen too. The English Channel saved their ass.

[Bob]

mmm, there's a little more to it than that, france could have done a LOT more than they did. there were units who fought valiantly (mostly colonials, which i find strange) but alot didn't do much at all, they were just overhwhelmed and panicky. i've been drinking so i forget the details exactly, but i read the berlin diaries by shirer, it's a diary he kept as a (american) correspondent in europe during the war, and as he was touring the french countryside after the blitz (of course, at the discretion of the germans), he noticed there weren't the signs of resistance and battle that he saw in places like belgium and the netherlands (like blown out buildings or shell craters in the road), it's like some people didn't even try. allied forces actually outnumbered the germans, they just got outstrategeried.

i'm really pissed at hitler for this, by the way, because after WWI was probably the best chance the world had for pacifism to catch on. but today, when you say "give peace a chance", they say "WE GAVE PEACE A CHANCE WITH HITLER LOOK WHAT HAPPENED!" in fact, let's go back further, fuck the allies too for being vengeful with the treaty of versailles. this shit really fucked the world over big time. we had a chance to give up war, and in 20 years it all got ruined. thanks guys

[seamus129]

The world has been dealing with hardship of how Islam like any other religion taken to extremes is dangerous but if idealogy mix with religion then we must take a stand and tell every nation who wants allow one single religion hold you hostage of fear intidation they that threat must be deal with.