Supplements: shit in a bottle

[Qdrop]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11532184/

"Two recent studies appearing in the highly-respected New England Journal of Medicine punctured the promises of some of the most popular pills found on drug-store shelves.

Turns out calcium isn't much help for preventing broken bones as we grow older. And glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate, top-sellers for the aches and pains of osteoarthritis, hardly make a difference."

"Vitamins C and E fared even poorer as preventives against prostate cancer in a study last week in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute. It found no reduction of risk whatsoever, except perhaps in some smokers."

"Small trials, which many supplements have gone through, often show a great deal of benefit,’’ says Vickers. "It’s only when you greatly increase the size of the population studied that you are able to see a more accurate picture, which is what we’re seeing now.’’

-----

stupid fuckin supplement craze....

[Bionic]

shit. i just spent like $100 on co Q 10, saw palmetto, multivitamins, and vitamin a&e oil. and horny goat weed but that stuff does actually work.

[Sarky Devotchka]

I think my bones came from a horse, I'm not worried about bone loss like the t.v. says I should be.

[Qdrop]

I think my bones came from a horse, I'm not worried about bone loss like the t.v. says I should be.


but the TV NEVER lies...
never....

[cosmo105]

the problem is too many people think they can spend $3 at Rite Aid for something and expect it to change their lives. and then too may others get sucked in by shyster companies that make ridiculous claims. just like that fucking Kevin Trudeau asshole. god, i hate him. he makes the whole industry look bad.

while it's unfortunate that so many are using hype and over-the-top claims to make money, it's really also about uneducated consumers and their eagerness to buy into ad campaigns. in the end these people may be gambling with their health.

i helped this customer last night (oh god she was gross. huge ball-in-a-sock boobs hanging down over her bellybutton on either side of it. practically under her arms. and she wouldn't fucking listen to me! i'd point directly at a product and she'd stare at the shelf and say "where is this is, i want this one" and point at her book again and i'd show it to her and she'd look at her book again and ask what the price was and i'd say your finger's over it rarrrgh. and talk about invading my personal space...) that was trying to get off antidepressants...and of course she had some book that she figured was going to save her life, and she demanded that i help her find every single supplement listed on one page. it must have been about 8 different things. she wasn't even taking a multivitamin, so i was really reluctant to let her shove a million capsules down her throat all at once. i started her off with a multi, calcium, and a fish oil, but after that i told her she really ought to try just these at once to see how they affect her and go from there. nope. she insisted upon about four different amino acids, in pretty high doses, and a few other things. i must have told her at least four times that she really shouldn't shock her system with so many different things, because, god forbid she did have a reaction to anything, she wouldn't know what did it. she just stared at me and said "are you going to help me find them or not."

sigh. so i pointed out all the products to Tubbarella and she spent over $200 on things that she probably has no clue what are actually going to do in her. that's why i'm so interested in biochemistry and nutrition...i hope to find out just what our bodies DO with what we put in it.


one thing that really irks me is people expect they can get all the necessary nutrients in ONE tablet. please. they're cramming so much into that horsepill that they can't even get the RDI, much less what you REALLY ought to take. and tablets are so difficult to absorb anyway, you might as well be sucking down metamucil. if someone reads you have to take - gasp - TWO CAPSULES! their eyes get huge and they refuse to believe that they could possibly swallow more than one small item.

OH! and don't get me started on retards that take fucking flintstones vitamins. hey idiotface! you're chewing on a piece of chalk with synthetic vitamins made for A FOUR-YEAR-OLD! you wonder why you belch them all day? BECAUSE THEY'RE PURPLE AND SHAPED LIKE FUCKING DINO! god i hate when people ask me if something like that is okay for them to take. yeah, if you weigh 40 pounds and haven't gone through puberty. retards.

anyway...

in the supplement biz, there are a lot of people just out there for money. but that's true in any industry. if you really want the right supplements for your nutritional needs, go to either a naturopath or nutritionist and figure out exactly what your lifestyle and body demand...and go to a small place with years of experience to help you figure out what YOU need and what the best product is. don't go to a drugstore, and don't go to a corporation. god, don't EVER go to GNC or vitaminshoppe or any of that shit. and don't buy the store brand. i'll be the first to admit that the house brand where i work is crap! but it's cheap, and that's what our lovely senior citizen clientle demand. for the most part, at a reputable place, you get what you pay for.

and qdrop...medical science doesn't always have every answer. everybody's different...and every body is different. :)

[Qdrop]

and qdrop...medical science doesn't always have every answer. everybody's different...and every body is different. :)

okay, i was with you up until that part...

what are saying? that some eastern philosophy can explain body chemistry better then an immunologist, or internal medicine doctor, or a neurologist?

[cosmo105]

to some degree. maybe not better, but in a different way. i know it goes against everything we're trained, but seriously - M.D.s don't know everything. and they don't know shit about natural medicine for the most part. they just say "if it's not regulated by the fda don't take it."

what people don't realize is how much the pharmaceutical industry runs the medical industry (yes, it is an industry). and that everything you take - synthetic or natural - has a side effect. and pharmaceuticals are all about treating symptoms, not curing disease. if they did that, you wouldn't have to keep paying them every month.

[marsdaddy]

what are saying? that some eastern philosophy can explain body chemistry better then an immunologist, or internal medicine doctor, or a neurologist?What are you saying? Western medicine trumps Eastern philosophy? One billion Chinese are wrong?

Like anything, people need to realize that what work's for the test group may or may not work for them. And what they hear from their doctors might not work either.

People can't expect 1 pill to solve all their problems. We grow old, body parts start falling off. If we try to treat our bodies as temples as early as possible, and we're not predisposed to disease, there might be a chance to prevent and/or mute maladies.

[cosmo105]

^prevention is far easier than a cure.


someday i'll find a cure for crohn's. someday.

[Echewta]

I really need some Panda bile to make me a hit with the ladies.

[ms.peachy]

"Turns out calcium isn't much help for preventing broken bones as we grow older. ... "


Great, maybe the next step is to get the dairy industry to acknowledge that actually, drinking loads of milk is in fact not all that good for us.

[marsdaddy]

Great, maybe the next step is to get the dairy industry to acknowledge that actually, drinking loads of milk is in fact not all that good for us.That's C-R-A-Z-Y talk. Next you're going to say mother's milk is better than cow's milk?! Lies!

[Justin]

some people dont understand how important vitamins are or exercise for that matter...(and im not talking about looking like a muscle head). I can find some great things at GNC and Vitamin World. For vitamins i prefer "Mega Man".

Also some people and even weightlifters dont know much at all about supplements. Most guys (training for strength and lots of mass) think that they "HAVE" to drink 3-4 protein shakes a day, with each shake containing 35-40 grams of protein. (It is recommended that each day you should consume 0.7 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight) What they dont understand is if they are eating lots of meat, for the protein, their daily protein intake could completely go over what is recommended. Which may cause the kidneys to "QUIT".

Most deaths in males are in cause of some type of heart failure/disease, which is caused by a lack of cardiovascular activity.

yes, i'm a know it all

[cosmo105]

mega-man is crap. gnc supplements are crap. ever noticed how bright neon yellow your piss is?

[Justin]

thats not caused my mega man, its from not eating/drinking right. Those of you with alot of yellow pee goin on, drink more water!

If you get drunk at night and wake up and piss, you have to expect your pee to be yellow

[cosmo105]

what the hell are you talking about?

it's because all the nutrients are coming out of you. it's tablets. you're not absorbing any of it. your money's going down the drain.

[cosmo105]

why would i take those? i don't have trouble sleeping.

i'm not being hostile. i'm just a heartless bitch.

[Jmoney77]

YEA

[Justin]

what the hell are you talking about?

it's because all the nutrients are coming out of you. it's tablets. you're not absorbing any of it. your money's going down the drain.

No

[ms.peachy]

No
Uh, yes. Dark yellow urine is a sign of dehydration, and is caused by the higher concentration of bilirubins in th urine. The bright flourescenty yellow piss you take about an hour or so after taking vitmins is the exceess of minerals that have not absorbed into your bloodstream, i.e., it's the colour of your money going down the toilet.

[roosta]

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling how it ends
Ned Flanders

[Anne Lauren]

I think I have almost concluded that basically...a person's overall "heath" is genetic. A person is predisposed to having certain elements and granted vitamins and living a healthier lifestyle, i.e. not smoking and exercise etc., can help prevent the ontake of those "illnessess"...however, for the most part, it's just genetic.

And, no, I don't have any scientific data to back up my "theory"...and I'm sure there is some out there somewhere. But, just from what I've personally noticed...there seems to be a trend there, as far as, when a person looks at their parents and their grandparents, etc...they can pretty much expect to turn out the same way.

Not to slide off subject...but, like obesity, for example, is genetic...they have found a "fat gene". Now, yes, obviously, overeatting etc... does cause obesity, too. But, scientists seem to be finding genes for everything, lately...and I mean everything. And even when I look at my country bumpkin cousins from Pikeville, Kentucky...they all eat literally lard with everything. But, none of them have clogged arteries and heart problems as a result. They all seem to die from lung cancer...which is found to be genetic, as well. And most of them have never smoked a cigarette a day in their life. Infact, out of my grandfather's 12 brother's and sisters...10 of them have died from lung cancer, including my granddad. And on my father's side of the family...his father on up 3 generations...have died from heart attacks and they all were in their sixties. My uncle is a cardiologist and he said that it definately is genetic and more than likely might happen to them, as well.

Now, I know most of you all already know this. I'm basically just expressing my opinion on supplements and the market, as a whole. However, yes, it is always good to nurish your body with vitamins and some "supplements". (y)

[GetYourWarOn]

i prefer flinstone chewables.

[cosmo105]

OH! and don't get me started on retards that take fucking flintstones vitamins. hey idiotface! you're chewing on a piece of chalk with synthetic vitamins made for A FOUR-YEAR-OLD! you wonder why you belch them all day? BECAUSE THEY'RE PURPLE AND SHAPED LIKE FUCKING DINO! god i hate when people ask me if something like that is okay for them to take. yeah, if you weigh 40 pounds and haven't gone through puberty. retards.

[Jmoney77]

I buy extends

[GetYourWarOn]

OH! and don't get me started on retards that take fucking flintstones vitamins. hey idiotface! you're chewing on a piece of chalk with synthetic vitamins made for A FOUR-YEAR-OLD! you wonder why you belch them all day? BECAUSE THEY'RE PURPLE AND SHAPED LIKE FUCKING DINO! god i hate when people ask me if something like that is okay for them to take. yeah, if you weigh 40 pounds and haven't gone through puberty. retards.


that's like the hottest post ever.

[roosta]

Flintstones Chewable Morphines!

I miss Sherrif Lobo.

[Qdrop]

What are you saying? Western medicine trumps Eastern philosophy? One billion Chinese are wrong?


so population numbers make something right?

so a Billion Christians MUST be right about Jesus...

but wait, aren't there like...a billion muslims...

and what about the millions of Hindu's?

hmmmm.....

it's not about amount of believers...
it's about observable, quantifiable facts and studies....
proving something works or doesn't work...and understanding why.

i certainly don't think that all Eastern treatments are phony....but i think the ones that DO work have medical reasoning behind it.
i mean shit, it's not like accupuncture sends ancient ghosts into your bloodstream to battle your mis-aligned chi....

western medicine works better because it has a stronger, more logical foundation in SCIENCE...
Eastern "medicine" occasionally works due to chance...because it's lack of scientific groundings or studies.

now, as far as the corporate corruption in the western medical industry....well, yeah....that definately hinders things...

[Nuzzolese]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I just want to mention that facts are not solid, even in science. They are not permanent, and highly respected journals of medicine are always contradicting their past assessments because data can be mistakenly collected or recorded, and there can be unexpected or unaccounted for variables in these studies. So it seems unwise to base too much faith on current studies one way or the other. Didn't the study simply claim that supplements cannot be proven to treat cure or prevent disease? It doesn't disprove any benefits entirely.

But I do think a reminder like this is important now, stupid Tom Cruise, stupid fucking Kevin Trudeau, I hate that demon. He's preying on the paranoia and desperation of sick and unhappy people, just leading them into another hopeless money pit. I mean, it's one thing to suggest alternatives but no one can say it's all proven all the time to be the one and only answer.

[jabumbo]

my urine has been dark yellow a good bit recently


i havent ever taken anything more than your stock vitamin

[Nuzzolese]

The study did not conclude that supplements were "shit in a bottle." It concluded that they are what they claim to be by name, SUPPLEMENTS to a healthy lifestyle.

[Qdrop]

The study did not conclude that supplements were "shit in a bottle." It concluded that they are what they claim to be by name, SUPPLEMENTS to a healthy lifestyle.

snake oil.

unless they can show thier benifits through REPEATED clinical studies....i consider them snake oil.

fish oil, ginko, echinachia, bees wax....all shit in a bottle.

as far as vitamin and mineral supplements...you SHOULD try and get them through food, that is what our digestive system is set to do.
taking pills to "supplement" your vitamin intake is a crap shoot: our body tends to just piss out the synthetic shit...unless you can "trick" your body into taking it in with other food and high-quality synthetics. it's NOT the optimal way to take care of your body.

just like Atkins and carb-cutters....this is just society looking for the miracle in a bottle or fad diet....

you can't eat Fast food every other fuckin day and think you make up for it with a multivitamin and fish oil....

basic, common sense will do ya just fine.
eat healthy balanced meals....do some weekly cardio and light weight training (with doctor approval)....
you don't need bees wax, fish oil, 3 multivitamins, and St. John's wort to be healthy.

[cosmo105]

*sigh*


most people DON'T have a healthy diet. if they did, supplements wouldn't be necessary. hello, we're americans and we're obese and addicted to bleached white flour. and not all supplements are synthetic! where are you getting that from? most of the shit you buy at a drug store is, but i know for a fact that NOTHING we sell at my store is synthetic. it's all from natural, food-based sources.


and fish oil worthless? it's changed steger's life. he's doing better now on natural nutrients and supplements than he ever was on conventional medicine. hell, conventional medicine is what almost killed him.

[cj hood]

i was a science major in college....and my bio-chem prof told me how he likes to go into these 'health food' stores and hear the line of bull they'd use to sell these fake pills.....then he'd tell them he has a phd in bio and they'd stutter and run away....

[cosmo105]

i was a science major in college....and my bio-chem prof told me how he likes to go into these 'health food' stores and hear the line of bull they'd use to sell these fake pills.....then he'd tell them he has a phd in bio and they'd stutter and run away....
as i said, unfortunately a lot of people are in it for just the money and have little or no real background in the truth. but luckily for me, i've had experiences with people that have a real passion for it and wouldn't sell out like that.

i work with a naturopathic doctor that has his phD in it, and i'm considered his assistant there, so i feel confident that i'm learning what's really going on. and i've gotten to know him well - he's very patient, very honest, and very genuine. he never lies to a customer. it's not like any of us work on comission, anyway.

[Qdrop]

most people DON'T have a healthy diet. if they did, supplements wouldn't be necessary.
exaclty...so you change THAT....
you don't put a band-aid on it by taking supplements.
end.of.story.

and not all supplements are synthetic! where are you getting that from? most of the shit you buy at a drug store is, but i know for a fact that NOTHING we sell at my store is synthetic. it's all from natural, food-based sources. ok, so your store's is....
none the less....are you telling me that I
1.) cannot get the nutrients/benefits that your supplement and herbs give from more standard natural foods like meat, vegetables, and fruits?
and
2.)the supposed benifits from many of the "off the grid" products like fish oil truly produce the benifits they claim?


and fish oil worthless? it's changed steger's life. he's doing better now on natural nutrients and supplements than he ever was on conventional medicine. hell, conventional medicine is what almost killed him.
well, that's pretty cool for steger.
my best friends sister has Crohn's and is constantly hospitalized.

but are you saying that the benifits that you think Steger is getting from Fish Oil can only be obtained from Fish Oil...and not from any more standard food like a vegatable or root, etc?
what is it in the Fish Oil that helps steger with his Crohn's?
do you know?

[roosta]

imagine taking a shit in a bottle.

[cosmo105]

you don't understand crohn's. steger can't eat vegetables or fruits. he's basically on a high-protien, low-fiber diet. which means low nutrients. he can't eat anything over a gram of fiber. so he doesn't absorb nutrients - it's not like there's a hell of a lot of nutritional value other than protein from cooked meat anyway.

and yes, i do know what the fish oil does for him. it's the strongest natural anit-inflammatory in the world. the omega-3 fatty acids in fish oil specifically are the best thing out there for inflammation. and that's what crohn's is all about. i've read numerous clinical studies that show that crohn's patients that take a sustained-release high-quality fish oil (like steger does) are twice to three times as likely to stay in remission than those that don't. and it's worked for him.

again, you're saying "herbs" when i haven't said a word about them. herbs are different. herbs are used to treat specific problems, not necessarily nutritional deficiencies.

and you know what? we can't get those benefits from food today. the produce in your local market is:
picked green
sprayed with a chemical agent to ripen it
picked for sturdiness and durability over taste
treated with pesticides and herbicides until it glows in the dark
so far hybridized from its original form that it's a mutant

and even if you're eating organic, which most people don't, you're still probably losing some nutrients because food becomes less and less active with each second away from being picked.

i'm willing to bet you don't have a diet as healthy as it should be, because you're american and so skeptical about all of this. ;) and so you could definitely use a good quality multi, at the very least. not some tablet of chalk you get for $4.50 for a six-month supply. i take a liquid multi, and so does steger, so it's more easily absorbed.

the reason i feel so victorious with steger's case is because we've tried so many things that haven't worked to come this far, and he's really thriving. i've seen pictures of him in the deepest depths of crohn's, and he weighed barely 120 pounds and looked so sickly and pale. now he's healthy and glowing. :)


all that conventional medicine gave him was covering up the symptoms of the real problem and not treating it. his doctor just kept prescribing steroids to mask the pain and inflammation until it was too late - the blockage in his intestines ruptured and he developed leaky gut syndrome, which meant that undigested food and waste was released into his bloodstream. read: toxic. read: death imminent.

he spent two days in bed before he could drag himself into a car. his best friend drove him to the emergency room. thank god the doc there was an expert and actually has crohn's. he knew exactly what had to be done. his stepmom called and asked if the operation could wait until she got there, a mere 3 hour drive - he said no, if i wait another minute he could die. so he sliced. and they took out fourteen inches of his colon. all of it was so inflamed and blocked up that they couldn't save any of it.

it took a week for him to be able to eat anything more than broth.

thank god for that surgeon. he really saved matt's life. after that he went off the steroids...thank goodness. no more acne or mood swings or covering up the problem.

matt's still on a very low-fiber diet, but even his skeptic dad is convinced: he's thriving now. his whole family came up to me at christmas and told me how happy they were that i've worked so hard to bring him to health, and that he's finally off the meds. :o

anyway. for all that conventional medicine offered him, only one treatment really helped - one called remicade, and unfortunately he can't afford that now because of the shitty hmo he gets through work. we'd like to get that for him, but it's $1600 a treatment, once every 3 months. yipes. but for now he's doing pretty well.

and all that he really has to show from conventional medicine his a huge, gnarly scar on his stomach.

[Qdrop]

you don't understand crohn's. steger can't eat vegetables or fruits. he's basically on a high-protien, low-fiber diet. which means low nutrients. he can't eat anything over a gram of fiber. so he doesn't absorb nutrients - it's not like there's a hell of a lot of nutritional value other than protein from cooked meat anyway.

and yes, i do know what the fish oil does for him. it's the strongest natural anit-inflammatory in the world. the omega-3 fatty acids in fish oil specifically are the best thing out there for inflammation. and that's what crohn's is all about. i've read numerous clinical studies that show that crohn's patients that take a sustained-release high-quality fish oil (like steger does) are twice to three times as likely to stay in remission than those that don't. and it's worked for him.

again, you're saying "herbs" when i haven't said a word about them. herbs are different. herbs are used to treat specific problems, not necessarily nutritional deficiencies.

and you know what? we can't get those benefits from food today. the produce in your local market is:
picked green
sprayed with a chemical agent to ripen it
picked for sturdiness and durability over taste
treated with pesticides and herbicides until it glows in the dark
so far hybridized from its original form that it's a mutant

and even if you're eating organic, which most people don't, you're still probably losing some nutrients because food becomes less and less active with each second away from being picked.

i'm willing to bet you don't have a diet as healthy as it should be, because you're american and so skeptical about all of this. ;) and so you could definitely use a good quality multi, at the very least. not some tablet of chalk you get for $4.50 for a six-month supply. i take a liquid multi, and so does steger, so it's more easily absorbed.

the reason i feel so victorious with steger's case is because we've tried so many things that haven't worked to come this far, and he's really thriving. i've seen pictures of him in the deepest depths of crohn's, and he weighed barely 120 pounds and looked so sickly and pale. now he's healthy and glowing. :)


all that conventional medicine gave him was covering up the symptoms of the real problem and not treating it. his doctor just kept prescribing steroids to mask the pain and inflammation until it was too late - the blockage in his intestines ruptured and he developed leaky gut syndrome, which meant that undigested food and waste was released into his bloodstream. read: toxic. read: death imminent.

he spent two days in bed before he could drag himself into a car. his best friend drove him to the emergency room. thank god the doc there was an expert and actually has crohn's. he knew exactly what had to be done. his stepmom called and asked if the operation could wait until she got there, a mere 3 hour drive - he said no, if i wait another minute he could die. so he sliced. and they took out fourteen inches of his colon. all of it was so inflamed and blocked up that they couldn't save any of it.

it took a week for him to be able to eat anything more than broth.

thank god for that surgeon. he really saved matt's life. after that he went off the steroids...thank goodness. no more acne or mood swings or covering up the problem.

matt's still on a very low-fiber diet, but even his skeptic dad is convinced: he's thriving now. his whole family came up to me at christmas and told me how happy they were that i've worked so hard to bring him to health, and that he's finally off the meds. :o

anyway. for all that conventional medicine offered him, only one treatment really helped - one called remicade, and unfortunately he can't afford that now because of the shitty hmo he gets through work. we'd like to get that for him, but it's $1600 a treatment, once every 3 months. yipes. but for now he's doing pretty well.

and all that he really has to show from conventional medicine his a huge, gnarly scar on his stomach.

gnarly.

you've made your case on the Fish Oil...for crohn's patients anyway..
i'm gonna print this out and show it my friend...his sister isn't doing too well...
i've never seen someone so frail at 21.

[cosmo105]

oh, please, please give this friend my email addy. cosmo105@yahoo.com . seriously.

she needs to be on:

fish oil - high, HIGH quality - two or three capsules twice daily at first, then once daily

a good liquid multivitamin
liquid b complex
aloe vera juice - NOT whole leaf, NOT gel. high quality, preferably organic. lilly of the desert is a good brand. 4 ounces in juice twice daily.
IntestiNew (http://www.renewlife.com/products/detail/intestinew.html) - the powder if she's really, really a mess, the capsules later on when she's doing better. steger took this and said within less than 3 days he noticed a huge improvement in absorbing nutrients, and that's REALLY fast to be seeing such a change.
a good probiotic - at least 5 billion live cells per capsule - preferably more, 10 or 12 billion. make sure it's refrigerated and a good spectrum of them, not just lactobacilli acidophilus or bifidus. first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, 1/2 hour before eating.
Zyflamend (http://www.iherb.com/zyflamend1.html) is a good remedy to keep in the medicine chest for occasional flare-ups. it works very quickly, within an hour even. 2 softgels as needed.
if she can't find that, then definitely Turmeric extract. Boswellia alone has shown good results in trials, but steger tried it and it didn't do much for him. i think that it was because it was in tablet form and he didn't take enough of it.

either way, tell your friend best of luck and never give up from me.

fish oil also works very well for arthritis patients. after all, arthritis is very related to crohn's - the body's own immune system attacks inflammation and it gets worse and worse, a runaway effect. the fish oil keeps the inflammation in check. that treatment, remicade, was actually made for arthritis patients in the first place. i don't know much about it except that it's synthesized from "human and mouse cells." eww. :x

[Documad]

my best friends sister has Crohn's and is constantly hospitalized.
I don't understand why cosmo's stuff helps boomin, but hospitals don't have the answer. About ten years ago, my friend died. She had struggled with Crohn's and was in and out of one of the best hospitals in the world over the course of years. What she went through before she died was horrible. If you spend a lot of time in hospitals, you're bound to pick up something else that kills you.


Cosmo, what's a good multivitamin for a middle aged woman and where do you buy it? I'm clueless but smart enough to know that the clowns at the GMC in my skyway don't know anything. For one thing, they look rather unhealthy.

[cosmo105]

this (http://www.smartbomb.com/765462004361.html) is the one matt and i take - liquid health daily multiple. but see, we have special nutritional needs. i have to take a multi because i'm vegan, and he has to take one because of the crohn's. we take liquid because we both have trouble with tablets. it's a good one, but it's not entirely complete, and i take extra b and c and e and iron based on my needs.

the naturopathic doctor i work with recommends one called Life Force by Source Naturals (the link i'm using isn't working but eh), and it's decent, and cheap, and complete, but again it's capsules and tablets. i didn't like it too much.

this is also a good one - Liquid Source Of Life. (http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp;jsessionid=LHDREIT30PKTKCQUC4YFAFYK CQL00UNE?id=NT-7028) the only thing is it really tastes like tropical ass. they make tablets which are better than most tablet multis, but again, you piss most of it out. i'd suggest going with the capsules of them if you can find them. they're really the industry standard, have been for years.

a good knock-off of them is Alive (http://www.iherb.com/alive.html), which comes in tablet and capsule and powder. i liked this one. i really felt some nice energy on it.

as far as iron - women need more because we menstruate. but iron's an oxidizer, so if you get enough in your diet, get one without iron.

you can get all of them at a Whole Foods or Wild Oats (or Harry's or Henry's, owned by the former and latter respectively. talk about creative names, huh?), but be prepared to pay a big price. pretty much all of these should be available at any half-decent independent place, though.

[Documad]

Thanks. My coop seems well stocked, but the choices are overwhelming. The staff are sweet but clueless.

I REALLY need to get my shit together.

I'm sure it's a placebo effect, but I honestly don't get sick if I'm careful about getting vitamin C. I'm the only one at work who hasn't had The Crud this year. :)

[cosmo105]

my immune system's been throwing me spitballs this season. that's why i'm posting so much today. i'm sick at home. :\

[roosta]

sometimes, in the dead of night, this message board RULES.

[DapperDiverge]

sometimes, in the dead of night, this message board RULES.

yeah... wish i was a vampire... then i could get all the iron supplements i needed from drinking blood... hmmm... i wonder, if i sucked the blood of diabetic, would i develop type 2 diabetes...

wait a minute... i'm the living dead!! i can't get sick!! the hell with supplements!! the hell with you mortals!!! :mad:

muhhahhhhhhhh!! covers herself with a cape, turns into a bat and flies away

[GetYourWarOn]

ima pick up some more milk thistle next week. maybe some ecanachia too.

[insertnamehere]

haha, i take flintstones with iron because other multivitamines ive taken all make my puke. i think the iron does help, im pretty sure im iron deficient, maybe slightly anemic, and i can tell after ive taken them for a few weeks at the time i start to generate my own body heat in my hands and feet, so thats nice. you could reccomend me something if you like, i definetly dont have anything close to a healthy diet, but you have to keep in mind: i barely have money for food, i cant spend a ton on pills and, i dont have health insurance, so dont bother recommending that i go to a doctor for all my ailments

[marsdaddy]

you've made your case on the Fish Oil...for crohn's patients anyway..You might want to get sworn affidavits before you give in to her (and Steger's) evil plot.

Western Medicine is based on Eastern Medicine...but is so fixated on "finding a magic pill" and getting rich, Western practioners no longer treat root causes but symptoms. For example, back pain -- from which 80% of the population will suffer at some point.

There was a great article in the SF Chron mag this weekend about a neurosurgeon who no longer operates on people with spinal stenosis -- something near and dear to my spine. Rather, he inserts a device that keeps the spinal column open, whether the person sits, stands, or lies down. Now THAT is treating the root cause.

I had a surgeon who wanted to shave off the disc -- to which I replied, "won't the remaining disc work it's way into the spinal column again?" His reply -- to which I could have sworn someone played a creepy organ -- was "Then we'll just fuse it." (!)

Acupunture, chiro and deep tissue massage have helped me avoid back pain.

[The Notorious LOL]

theres millions of people in the United States who live in chronic pain because few doctors have an understanding of how to treat the pain. Look at people with severe arthritis or fibromyalgia or MS....there isnt much for them, and there doesnt seem to be many prospects in the ways of advancement.


My dad deals with chronic pain...the only thing that does a damn for him is MSM. Its a supplement. It works. Conventional doctors have done jack shit for him.


Research MSM or DMSO a bit...its pretty interesting how these "solvents" have a number of "unsubstansiated claims" regarding their uses in healing, yet the FDA is in no rush to test any of these.

[Qdrop]

t Look at people with severe [..] fibromyalgia

my mom AND sister have that...though it's a difficult diagnosis.

OK, cosmo...hit me.
my mom has been battling Fibro for years and years....and has basically been relegated to taking Ultrum (INSANE pain killers) like 4 times a day or more.
if she forgets to take her pill just ONCE, or leaves them at home....her day is ruined. if she missed a day or 2 of dosage...she'd probably have to be hospitalized for pain.

what are the latest treatments for Fibro in your field?

[The Notorious LOL]

MSM or DMSO, like I said above yo.

[cosmo105]

msm is another great anti-inflammatory. And dmso works very well for a lot of people but i don't know enough about it to say definitively how it works. It does kinda freak me out that technically it's sold as a solvent.

[cosmo105]

god, sooo many people are being diagnosed with fibro. To be honest, i don't have that much experience with it - i've only really had one customer that i knew over the course of a few years with it. I remember her having a very, very heavily restricted diet. Off the top of my head the only thing that comes to mind is magnesium malate. Source Naturals actually makes that and something called Fibro Responce, and i've heard good things about both of them.

on a side note, Q, where do you think fish oil comes from? Fishies! But to get the same benefits from food as supplementation matt would have to be eating fish every day at least one meal. For a case as severe as his it would get tedious. Plus with mercury levels being what they are in most commercial fish it's a bit of a crapshoot. Better off with high quality line caught deep sea oil. (on an interesting note, his dad suffers from arthritis and has noticed that his pain goes down when he eats sushi more than once a week!)

i'll look up more on fibro at home.

[marsdaddy]

Buddylee is going to burst into this thread like that Kool Aid guy!

[Qdrop]

go cosmo...it's your birthday...any time you've made a semi-convert out of Q-drop, then u must be good.

well, when my family and friends are in pain and nothing is working...you get desparate....

and a little more open minded by default....

i still say eating better is #1....then you wouldn't need most supplements...
as far as nutrition....


now as far as steger, or my mom with fibro....
regular healthy eating doesn't fix what they got...

[Qdrop]

theres millions of people in the United States who live in chronic pain because few doctors have an understanding of how to treat the pain. Look at people with severe arthritis or fibromyalgia or MS....there isnt much for them, and there doesnt seem to be many prospects in the ways of advancement.


My dad deals with chronic pain...the only thing that does a damn for him is MSM. Its a supplement. It works. Conventional doctors have done jack shit for him.


Research MSM or DMSO a bit...its pretty interesting how these "solvents" have a number of "unsubstansiated claims" regarding their uses in healing, yet the FDA is in no rush to test any of these.

i just chatted with my mother....
she actually did many DMSO procedures quite awhile ago now. In fact that was “premier” when she did that, according ot her. It worked for awhile and then it stopped.
but she hasn't tried any MSM suppliments, or even heard of it...

edit: i actually do the printing for a California based health drink company call Alacer (Emergen-C)...they actually make a powder drink that contains MSM for joint health....

[cosmo105]

hah, i know alacer. Hell, emergen-c is a bestseller and industry standard. The msm in that formula isn't that high though.

and yes, healthy eating is ideal and would eliminate the need for supplementation. But as i stated earlier, we don't live in that kind of world today.

as far as multis - look guys. Multis are just a foundation. You can't realistically expect a multi to fit all your dietary needs. You find one suitable for you and build from there. For example, enree could take an adult multi and extra calcium. Inh could use the same multi and maybe extra a, c, or an antioxidant blend based on her needs. Greens would be beneficial for her too (preferably in powder form). It all depends, bitches.

[GetYourWarOn]

i think this thread might go for 10 pages.

[Tone Capone]

zzz

[Qdrop]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11588366/from/RS.5/

[Tone Capone]

But have you read this? (http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=1148688&postcount=63)

[Nuzzolese]

This is one of the more interesting threads in a while. Tone, you haven't been interesting in ages. Pipe 'er down.

[Nuzzolese]

Have me raped? That was so offensive. Don't make me resort to tired old macho miltary animal mother comments.

[Tone Capone]

Have me raped? That was so offensive. Don't make me resort to tired old macho miltary animal mother comments.

Has nothing to do with the military. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. GEEZ!

Anyway, for every report saying supplements don't work, there is another saying they do work. Everyone's personal chemistry is different so there is no 100% correct answer....

ps. zzz

[Qdrop]

Don't make me have you raped.


Nuzz, if you don't have him banned for this, you're an enabler.

[cosmo105]

so well-adjusted and healthy...

anyway, q, you gonna give that friend that info? she should also look into something called Colitiscope, a camp for kids with crohn's and colitis. steger used to be a counselor for it every summer he'd get the chance, and there's one in every state. maybe when she's up to it she might want to do that. it's such an amazing experience. it really changed his life. seriously, he wouldn't shut up about it for weeks afterward.

[Qdrop]

so well-adjusted and healthy...

anyway, q, you gonna give that friend that info? she should also look into something called Colitiscope, a camp for kids with crohn's and colitis. steger used to be a counselor for it every summer he'd get the chance, and there's one in every state. maybe when she's up to it she might want to do that. it's such an amazing experience. it really changed his life. seriously, he wouldn't shut up about it for weeks afterward.

definately....i'll call my buddy this week...and i can give him the print out to give to his sister (she's away at college).

i bet thier mom will email you...she's really worried about her.

[cosmo105]

aww. :( tell her not to hesitate to email me. how long ago was she diagnosed? steger would probably be willing to talk to them too. a long time ago he told me that if i ever came across anyone in my work, especially children, struggling with it, to give them his phone number and he'd tell them everything they needed to know and all his experiences. it's a scary thing to go through, to be told you have an uncurable, chronic disease that will change your life forever. and to have someone else with it tell you what it's like makes all the difference. he felt so alone until the surgeon with crohn's talked to him, so he sorta made it his mission to help others with the difficult psychological aspects of it. i love this man. :o he was just a kid when he was diagnosed, too. only 16, i think. it's terrifying for even smaller children.

[Tone Capone]

yawns...

I guess if you or your friends were in deep shit and conventional medicine wasn't helping then you'd be a little more interested. If you don't like the thread, then don't post in it.

I'm all for herbal remedies and supplements... idiot

ps... zzzz

[Tone Capone]

so I'm an idiot for telling you the truth? What bullshit! *snickers*

Ps zzzz is getting old.

Uh... when did I say anything about not agreeing with supplements?
zzz...

[Tone Capone]

P.S. Urinates on you...

Did you know some people drink that??? How interesting... zzz

[hardnox71]

Anyone ever tried that stuff called Shit In A Bottle?



It doesn't do shit. :D :D :D :D :D






























































Yeah, well, if you were as tired as I am you would find that funny.

[abcdefz]

People can't expect 1 pill to solve all their problems.



...mmmmmmmaybe cyanide?