abortions banned in SD

[Rancid_Beasties]

Auton, I said generally religious nutjobs. There are of course those who are anti-abortion, but not a part of the pro-life movement, and are as such very reasonable. My mother for one. But within the actual portion of society that protests abortion and occasionally go out of their way to actively stop it, the bulk of them are are bible bashers. Maybe thats just over here, but i suspect that it is the same in America. On the other hand, there are just as many radical feminists who are as obsessed with their pro-choice cause. Now they are called baby killers and such by the pro-lifers, so whats wrong with a little nameslinging back the other way. Especially when the pro-choice people arguing for their rights over their own bodies whilst the pro-lifers are arguing for their rights over other peoples bodies.

[Medellia]

"fuck the dad, it's my decsion my body"
SO she shouldn't be able to decide what she does with her own body if the father wants it and she doesn't?

[cosmo105]

I think it's wrong for the goverment to intefere. I also think it's wrong for the mother to make the decision if the father is not a bum, rapist, and could be a good father. 9 months is long but 18 years of taking care of another life is just as hard if not more. I don't agree with the "fuck the dad, it's my decsion my body" when the child is a product of BOTH. That is all take it or leave it I know what most would do any way since they don't see the guy's perspective (the good guy).
no one's saying "fuck the dad" here. there's a big difference here - the mother has the real commitment to make. as has been said over and over again, it's not just 9 months and then it's over. it changes your body and your life forever, and you could die during childbirth. if the mother's not willing to risk that just because the father wants a child, then he should find a woman that's willing to have his child and save everyone the heartache.

[DandyFop]

I can't wait untill technology makes it so that men can have babies.


Robot babies.

[Justin]

haha. I just thought of this one old snl comedy skit where robots eat old peoples medicine for strength

haahahahahahahahaha (y)

[CJM]

deadly, i've been quoted. sure, i'm not as deep as Winston Churchill, or as smart as Einstein, but it's all about baby steps, isn't it?



ignorance

n : the lack of knowledge or education

[Medellia]

deadly, i've been quoted. sure, i'm not as deep as Winston Churchill, or as smart as Einstein, but it's all about baby steps, isn't it?



ignorance

n : the lack of knowledge or education
Then why not actually address the quotes instead of proudly flaunting your ignorance?

[CJM]

i've already addressed the quotes by saying them. i can address comments, or questions, though.



i had said all i needed to say, but then my name was mentioned out of nowhere, so i thought i'd make an appearance. i stick by what i've said. it may not have been exactly what was going through my head, but it makes damn good sence to my male brain.

[Medellia]

i've already addressed the quotes by saying them.
What does this even mean?
i can address comments, or questions, though.
Well then adress my comment about rape!
i had said all i needed to say, but then my name was mentioned out of nowhere, so i thought i'd make an appearance. i stick by what i've said. it may not have been exactly what was going through my head, but it makes damn good sence to my male brain.
Glad to know it made "sence". :rolleyes:

[BangkokB]

I'm torn between states rights and personal choice.

I will say this. If I was to move to SD, my reckless lifestyle alone would strike that law down within 9 months. But I'm happy in the Land of Smiles. Aside from the 4 PM concerts

[g-mile7]

no one's saying "fuck the dad" here. there's a big difference here - the mother has the real commitment to make. as has been said over and over again, it's not just 9 months and then it's over. it changes your body and your life forever, and you could die during childbirth. if the mother's not willing to risk that just because the father wants a child, then he should find a woman that's willing to have his child and save everyone the heartache.



If you made this comment to begin with then you wouldn't be thinking I was attacking you since this is a good comment, but the chances of dying during child birth is slim (or else nobody would have kids at the rate that it happens at).

[ms.peachy]

but the chances of dying during child birth is slim (or else nobody would have kids at the rate that it happens at).

That may be true, but it is still a risk, and there a thousand other risks besides. You have no idea how oddly stressful it is, thinking about some oof these things. I know I sure didn't until recently. I remember a few months ago, doing the test for Down's syndrome and spina bifida, and up until that point I really had just kind of not thought seriously about it, like, oh, it won't happen to me, not my baby. And then waiting for the three days for the results, the 'what if, what if,' what if sets in. And having to go for the tests for gestational diabetes. And the ultrasound to see if the placenta's moved to right position yet, or if I'm going to have to schedule a c-section. Not to mention the little evey day worries - what if I slip and fall, what if I'm never able to shift the pregnancy weight. People bumping into to you on the bus, the subway, what if one of them bumps into my stomach too hard?

What I'm saying is basically, I really don't think any man or woman who hasn't been through this can fully appreciate the daily reality of pregnancy. As I said, I didn't. I mean I could empathise, but I really didn't know. I can't ever imagine going through this experience if it was an unwanted pregnancy. It horrifies me that any woman would be forced to. To say "well she can always put the baby up for adoption" - oh my god. If I thought that was a bad answer before, I'm a thousand times more convinced of it now. My heart really goes out to the millions of women who have given birth to a baby to then have it whisked away into someone else's arms, I can't begin to imagine how emotionally devastating that must be.

[cosmo105]

but the chances of dying during child birth is slim (or else nobody would have kids at the rate that it happens at).
now, this is getting into a very faulty argument here. what exactly do you mean? that people wouldn't go through with having children if the risk of death during childbirth were much higher? that's simply not true. for thousands of years the risk of the mother dying during labor was huge - i don't remember exact numbers, but i think up until modern times it was somewhere around 50%. correct me if i'm wrong. and birth control other than the rhythm method, pulling out (which is hardly a contraceptive), and abstinence didn't exist back then. but people kept on having babies. in truth, humans are ill-equipped to have babies. it's because we stand upright. chimpanzee babies are born much more mature and able to be less dependent on their mothers because chimp pelvises are wider and able to pass a larger skull through. human pelvises have much smaller openings, so the baby's skull must be undeveloped. that's why their heads are so squishy and have those soft spots all over when they come out. because all human babies are born premature. they couldn't survive on their own without their mother. human childbirth is a miracle in many ways...

the truth is that no matter what legislation passes, people are going to keep right on screwing. and as cookiepuss said, if abortions are made illegal, unsafe, dangerous abortions will continue to be carried out. if a teenager is terrified of her parents finding out she's pregnant, for example, what is she more likely to do? run away and carry the baby to term, only to either suffer the emotional stress of giving it up for adoption, or worse, leave the baby in a dumpster? or go to someone unlicensed that could kill not only the fetus but her, using unsafe, possibly lethal techniques? neither option sounds good to me.


i was thinking about this last night. especially with CJM's post about assuming any girlfriend he had would have the same views as him...i think it's important for every couple to talk about this. to know exactly where the other person stands. my boyfriend and i use protection, and we're very careful about it, but what if? what if there was an accident over which we had no control, and i ended up pregnant? as much as i want to have children eventually, i'm nowhere near ready for that now. and i don't mean raising a child - i mean even carrying one to term. no way. i couldn't handle that. and even if i did, i would be devastated if i had to give it up for adoption. so if something like that would happen, with a heavy heart, i would probably go to an abortion clinic. believe me, it would be a hard decision to make, because i like to think of myself as a compassionate person, but i think that in my case the real compassion would be not to bring an unwanted child into the world, especially when i can't provide for her or him. and i made sure that my boyfriend understood my stance on this. hopefully we won't have to worry about anything like this for a long while, but just in case, it's good to know what each other think and get it out of the way. just as one should enter a marriage knowing what the other's desires in the way of children are. and i don't think it's the government's place to be interfering in what goes on in my vag.

[cosmo105]

My heart really goes out to the millions of women who have given birth to a baby to then have it whisked away into someone else's arms, I can't begin to imagine how emotionally devastating that must be.
i knew a girl in high school that ended up doing this. she decided when she learned that she was pregnant that she couldn't support a child, so she found a wonderful couple that was going to adopt her baby, and she became close with them. but when the time came, she was so attached to the baby, and to have it taken from her was really awful. she was so conflicted because she knew she couldn't give the child what she needed, but at the same time it was her baby and she couldn't help but fall in love with her. oh, it was bad. the poor girl was crushed. she ended up being so depressed she actually dropped out of school. thankfully the couple was there to help her through it and she plays a big role in her daughter's life. i wonder whatever happened to her. sadly, hers is a very unusual happy ending.

[g-mile7]

That may be true, but it is still a risk, and there a thousand other risks besides. You have no idea how oddly stressful it is, thinking about some oof these things. I know I sure didn't until recently. I remember a few months ago, doing the test for Down's syndrome and spina bifida, and up until that point I really had just kind of not thought seriously about it, like, oh, it won't happen to me, not my baby. And then waiting for the three days for the results, the 'what if, what if,' what if sets in. And having to go for the tests for gestational diabetes. And the ultrasound to see if the placenta's moved to right position yet, or if I'm going to have to schedule a c-section. Not to mention the little evey day worries - what if I slip and fall, what if I'm never able to shift the pregnancy weight. People bumping into to you on the bus, the subway, what if one of them bumps into my stomach too hard?

What I'm saying is basically, I really don't think any man or woman who hasn't been through this can fully appreciate the daily reality of pregnancy. As I said, I didn't. I mean I could empathise, but I really didn't know. I can't ever imagine going through this experience if it was an unwanted pregnancy. It horrifies me that any woman would be forced to. To say "well she can always put the baby up for adoption" - oh my god. If I thought that was a bad answer before, I'm a thousand times more convinced of it now. My heart really goes out to the millions of women who have given birth to a baby to then have it whisked away into someone else's arms, I can't begin to imagine how emotionally devastating that must be.


Once you actually see the child it's a whole new level of real (wow that child was in me, thats my baby). I trully will never know how stressful it is, and never said it wasn't, but the fact is the following 18 years+ are even worst (depending on you, the child and the surrondings). I have a pretty good idea of how it is to have kids though given that I am the oldest of 5 kids and my mother has shown no signs of any of the grief that has spoken about. Granted that is just one person (and counting my mama who is a healthy 80 and had 13 out 16 full term pregancys), but the stats on that are very few. You take risk everyday though greater then pregancy(car accidents, etc.) so risk is always a part of the game, before and after conception. I am not disagreeing with anything said only thing I had a problem with was the complete elimanation of the male.

[g-mile7]

now, this is getting into a very faulty argument here. what exactly do you mean? that people wouldn't go through with having children if the risk of death during childbirth were much higher? that's simply not true. for thousands of years the risk of the mother dying during labor was huge - i don't remember exact numbers, but i think up until modern times it was somewhere around 50%. correct me if i'm wrong. and birth control other than the rhythm method, pulling out (which is hardly a contraceptive), and abstinence didn't exist back then. but people kept on having babies. in truth, humans are ill-equipped to have babies. it's because we stand upright. chimpanzee babies are born much more mature and able to be less dependent on their mothers because chimp pelvises are wider and able to pass a larger skull through. human pelvises have much smaller openings, so the baby's skull must be undeveloped. that's why their heads are so squishy and have those soft spots all over when they come out. because all human babies are born premature. they couldn't survive on their own without their mother. human childbirth is a miracle in many ways...

the truth is that no matter what legislation passes, people are going to keep right on screwing. and as cookiepuss said, if abortions are made illegal, unsafe, dangerous abortions will continue to be carried out. if a teenager is terrified of her parents finding out she's pregnant, for example, what is she more likely to do? run away and carry the baby to term, only to either suffer the emotional stress of giving it up for adoption, or worse, leave the baby in a dumpster? or go to someone unlicensed that could kill not only the fetus but her, using unsafe, possibly lethal techniques? neither option sounds good to me.


i was thinking about this last night. especially with CJM's post about assuming any girlfriend he had would have the same views as him...i think it's important for every couple to talk about this. to know exactly where the other person stands. my boyfriend and i use protection, and we're very careful about it, but what if? what if there was an accident over which we had no control, and i ended up pregnant? as much as i want to have children eventually, i'm nowhere near ready for that now. and i don't mean raising a child - i mean even carrying one to term. no way. i couldn't handle that. and even if i did, i would be devastated if i had to give it up for adoption. so if something like that would happen, with a heavy heart, i would probably go to an abortion clinic. believe me, it would be a hard decision to make, because i like to think of myself as a compassionate person, but i think that in my case the real compassion would be not to bring an unwanted child into the world, especially when i can't provide for her or him. and i made sure that my boyfriend understood my stance on this. hopefully we won't have to worry about anything like this for a long while, but just in case, it's good to know what each other think and get it out of the way. just as one should enter a marriage knowing what the other's desires in the way of children are. and i don't think it's the government's place to be interfering in what goes on in my vag.



I don't think so either. I have said this plenty of times. I agree with you on this point!, but times were diffrent then and many women were; in a sense, forced to have kids given it was the right thing to do in terms of society. It's just now recently (1960's and up) that having a child is not seen as not being fit. Given that fitness in a Darwin perspective is the ablity of reproducing, we constantly change this rule. People would stop having kids, thery already don't due to work and money which can be seen as petty to some, but if there was a greater risk of death? I know the number of births would drop. Once again, I agree the gov. can't tell you shit to do with your body (or else tats, piercing would be next), but if I am willing to pay for whatever new yoga session you need to get your body right (because the majority after one birth are able to get back right) whatever psych. you need to talk to it's worth it, that can be my kid and just because the girl all of a sudden "flips a switch" afetr saying oh I don't mind having kids (and every girl I talk to I try and see what's the deal) , but in the end she can change her mind. I really hope it doesn't have to come down to signing a contract (but from what it sounds like this is the only way that both sides in terms of this argumenmt will agree).

[monkey]

gmile... are you fighting with the rest of the people responding for the sake of fighting? i mean, everyone is trying to show their points of views, but you're nitpicking! and you're not even disagreeing on the main issue.

dont respond to this. i dont want this thread to cause unnecesary fights. this is a serious issue that doesnt need silly fighting involved.

[g-mile7]

gmile... are you fighting with the rest of the people responding for the sake of fighting? i mean, everyone is trying to show their points of views, but you're nitpicking! and you're not even disagreeing on the main issue.

dont respond to this. i dont want this thread to cause unnecesary fights. this is a serious issue that doesnt need silly fighting involved.


Nobody fighting'(where am I dissing people), but if thats what you percieve then it's your reality. And I replyed to this since I felt that this was wrong'.

[CJM]

the only way i see abortion being justified, is if the woman was raped, and maybe that morning after pill. there could be other circumstances i'm not aware of, and i'm sure i'll be enlightened by someone.

Women who report rape immediately usually are given the morning after pill. If they still get pregnant, then what? Also, what about the women who are raped and are too ashamed and scared to say anything? They should go through pregnancy and childbirth because they were too terrified to go to the cops?

now, correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't i say after being raped, that i could see abortion being justified? i can't answer unclear questions.

and making fun of my spelling? low blow.

[Medellia]

now, correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't i say after being raped, that i could see abortion being justified? i can't answer unclear questions.
Uh yeah, and what if the woman is too scared or embarassed to report it? So she should have to pay because for her fear and shame by having an unwanted child? It's not unclear at all. You say it's okay if a woman is raped, but what if she doesn't report it? And if you say we should just take her word for it, wouldn't that mean that pregnant women looking for abortions would lie and say they WERE raped? I don't know how to make it any easier to understand. Do you just assume that all women who are raped report it?

[Medellia]

I don't know if this has already been posted, so my apologies if it has. It should probably be posted again because it's so important. The following states have pending legislation to outlaw abortion:

Alabama
Georgia
Indiana
Kentucky
Mississippi
Missouri
Ohio
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Tennessee
West Virginia

Gee, it's a great time to be a woman. :(

[CJM]

maybe they should tell someone.

[cookiepuss]

maybe they should tell someone.

uh yeah they SHOULD...however rape makes most people feel SHAME and some women/men are afraid to report it for the following reasons: shame, guilt, insecurity, fear, scrutiny, etc.

think about it, as a man if you were raped by another man...would you really want everyone to know? would you be prepared to go to court and have a lawyer cross examine you and try to make the case that YOU ASKED for it and that you're a horrible slut? Because that's what a most people have to go through when they report a rape.

[ms.peachy]

would you really want everyone to know? would you be prepared to go to court and have a lawyer cross examine you and try to make the case that YOU ASKED for it and that you're a horrible slut? Because that's what a most people have to go through when they report a rape.
You should see how fucked the process here in the UK is. Only 14% of reported rapes even get to trial, and only 5.6% result in a finding of guilt. That's 1 woman out of every 20 that reports being raped. How encouraging! :rolleyes:

[cosmo105]

maybe they should tell someone.
CJM, don't take this as an insult, but you really don't seem to know much about this issue from a woman's standpoint. that's the problem. the people that are making the decisions have nothing to do with the problem at hand; they're just making moral judgements. that affect the lives of millions. and it's not their place to. so it's unfair to make a blanket statement when you don't really understand what the arguments are.

[Auton]

but it's ok man, cosmo and i didn't know much about it either until she and i had to start thinking about getting one :(

fortunately for me, steger was footing the bill lol

[cosmo105]

it was so hard saying goodbye to that little life in you, auton. i mean, someday you'll get to breastfeed, but not now. not now.

[Auton]

next time you should learn to respect my body cosmo. if you were a woman too, you'd understand

[cosmo105]

it's not my fault you didn't say no emphatically enough. i thought you were just being the teasing whore you are. that's why i didn't pull out.



i'm really grossing myself out here

[Auton]

i would have pushed you off of me if you werent holding my arms down, so i couldnt do anything but weather your barbaric thrusts.

*puke*

[cosmo105]

you're sick, man. you should write really disgusting erotic fiction that only habbo hotel stalkers want to read. oh wait, you already do

[CJM]

CJM, don't take this as an insult, but you really don't seem to know much about this issue from a woman's standpoint. that's the problem. the people that are making the decisions have nothing to do with the problem at hand; they're just making moral judgements. that affect the lives of millions. and it's not their place to. so it's unfair to make a blanket statement when you don't really understand what the arguments are.


i'll admit it, i am biased, but i have been a male my whole life.


try and look at it from the baby's view, though. are all of you glad you weren't aborted? i know i am.

[Justin]

Sometimes I wonder where in the hell i did come from

[Medellia]

maybe they should tell someone.
Oh my god. Maybe because she's terrified that the guy will find her and kill her if he's aquitted/gets out of jail. Or maybe she's afraid of the shame and embarassment she'll go through at the trial when the defense attorney paints her as a whore. There's a myriad of reasons why a woman wouldn't report it.
try and look at it from the baby's view, though. are all of you glad you weren't aborted? i know i am.
Seriously, oh my god. I'm pretty sure that a fetus doesn't really have much of an opinion on the matter. And I've actually met a few people who seriously wished they had been aborted. But you don't care about that. You won't listen to reason.

[Medellia]

A silver lining in this whole debacle: http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2006/03/31/news/local/news03.txt

Hooray for tribal sovereignty!

[Freebasser]

Cosmo + Auton's exchange = (y)
Banning abortions = (n)

Poo stained underwear = :o

[Medellia]

Ah, jeez Freebs. How many times do I have to tell you, there's no shame in wearing adult diapers!

[ToucanSpam]

I can't believe this is even an issue in modern times. There's no reason to take away the option of abortion. Next, why don't they take away the right to have sex. Problem solved, right?:rolleyes:

[Medellia]

Next, why don't they take away the right to have sex.
Oh trust me, there are plenty of people who want to.

[ToucanSpam]

You know what they should do next? Give everyone vasectomies and the other one to 90% of the population, so that only the elite or rich can breed. That's not going too over the top is it? Is it? Because taking the right to have the option of abortion isn't.

[Medellia]

Wouldn't work. They'd need the proles for cheap labor.