abortions banned in SD

[monkey]

this is a terrible step backwards for humanity. (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_SD_Abortion_South_Dakota.html)

i cry for those poor women left without choice.

[Monsieur Decuts]

Well shit now what is everyone going to do in Wall Drug after drinking 20 2 dollar budweisers?

[b i o n i c]

who the hell wants to live in that crap-hole anyways.

[The Notorious LOL]

they'll just drive to North Dakota, Nebraska or Minnesota to get their abortions.

[b i o n i c]

thank god for them open-minded nebraskans

[The Notorious LOL]

yeah the abortion clinics on the edges of the state borders will be making a killing *ba dum ching*

[g-mile7]

Suprised that it went down like that I know the Cali. intentive didn't past in part because states like Nevada (who is known for it's wild times) won't change their laws, thus the ban of abortion would not work. Diffcult topic, glad I don't have to deal with it in terms of a debate.

[monkey]

until a woman is forced to choose, no one knows just how difficult it is not to have as many choices as possible in this matter. god and religion should have nothing to do with medical procedures of this nature.

[The Notorious LOL]

Anyone here been to South Dakota? That entire state should be aborted.

[ASsman]

Heh, this was in the Gen.Pol. like weeks ago.

South Dakota sucks anyways, I do believe it will be challenged and totally owned by the Fed. Supreme Court.

[b i o n i c]

been there. nice but dull.

[Sarky Devotchka]

I forgot there was a South Dakota. I forget about Kansas all the time too. I mean, people don't really live there I don't think.

holy shit! just as I typed that, the news said "south dakota banned abortion..."

creeeeepy.

[SobaViolence]

you have to be careful, the tumour may spread, so just to be safe, get rid of North Dakota too.



i don't want it to spread up here.

[b i o n i c]

i always forget about oklamoma...

[roosta]

haha..we only got divorce in 95.

abortions are a long way off.

[ToucanSpam]

EDIT: This was inappropriate and unfunny.

[Matt]

If worse comes to worse, and this sets the precident for all states, It'll give rise to back-alley abortions by seedy "doctors" who'll cause more harm than help. De-evoluotion of socieity as we know it.

At least coat-hanger compainies will make a killing.

[ToucanSpam]

If worse comes to worse, and this sets the precident for all states, It'll give rise to back-alley abortions by seedy "doctors" who'll cause more harm than help. De-evoluotion of socieity as we know it.

At least coat-hanger compainies will make a killing.


...we'll always have POD, though. (y)

[Rawr]

how is this bad? atleast you wouldnt be killing an innocent child cause your selfish and dont want one. now if you had a baby you didnt want you could just give it up for adoption.

[Matt]

how is this bad? atleast you wouldnt be killing an innocent child cause your selfish and dont want one. now if you had a baby you didnt want you could just give it up for adoption.

Then we have an overpopulation issue. There are already so many people who are living in adoption centers and will likely never be adopted because they are too old. They become a burden of the stat, which ultamately is a burden on you. There are many, many reasons why this is bad, and adoption is NOT a good answer.

[ASsman]

how is this bad? atleast you wouldnt be killing an innocent child cause your selfish and dont want one. now if you had a baby you didnt want you could just give it up for adoption.
We talking about fetusus, not babies. Please learn to make the clear distinction.

Yeah the system will do marvels with him.

[g-mile7]

The worst is when the anti-aboriton people will protest otuside the mall (during Christmas) with posters of late term aborted fetuses, damn :( but the abortions that usually take place are well in the first or second week maybe even a couple of days if the person knows whats up, so that type of argument they make is slanted. I don't know I say it's not involing me or hurting me or my family/friends let those people live their lives and deal with the shit that will grow from it (if any does) later.

[BGirl]

this is a terrible step backwards for humanity. (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_SD_Abortion_South_Dakota.html)

i cry for those poor women left without choice.


well said

it's truly fucked up

(n)

[Monsieur Decuts]

how is this bad? atleast you wouldnt be killing an innocent child cause your selfish and dont want one. now if you had a baby you didnt want you could just give it up for adoption.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=3178

take your pick you closed minded idiot.

[CJM]

am i the only one with no sympathy? it's the female's choice to either be protected, or not. if women are too lazy, or dumb enough to not care, why should they get the easy way out?


the only way i see abortion being justified, is if the woman was raped, and maybe that morning after pill. there could be other circumstances i'm not aware of, and i'm sure i'll be enlightened by someone.

[Matt]

The worst is when the anti-aboriton people will protest otuside the mall (during Christmas) with posters of late term aborted fetuses, damn :(

There's an abortion clinic about five miles from my house on the way to the mall, and they do abortions on saturday, which is also the day everyone goes to the mall. All the right-wing christians and close-minded fools will protest from across the street, giant pictures of late-term abortions and all. this clinic is on a corner, too, and whenever there's a red light, the protesters will parade out in front of cars, waving their posters in front of people who hoped to ignore them. No one really needs to see that.

[ToucanSpam]

http://www.beastieboys.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=64141


I don't understand.

[monkey]

am i the only one with no sympathy? it's the female's choice to either be protected, or not. if women are too lazy, or dumb enough to not care, why should they get the easy way out?

the only way i see abortion being justified, is if the woman was raped, and maybe that morning after pill. there could be other circumstances i'm not aware of, and i'm sure i'll be enlightened by someone.


what about honest mistakes? the condom is 99% effective which means there's a 1% chance a sperm got through on the day the woman was ovulating.

what if this happened to you (if you're a girl) or your girlfriend? what would you do if you couldnt even afford to feed yourself, much less a baby!

what if the medication the woman is taking will harm the fetus?

what if you're not fit to be a parent?

it's a hard decision. it's not like there's poeple just going out, getting pregnant and getting rid of it like an afterthought. there's a long process to go through. and it's mentally exhausting for the woman. abortion is hardly the easy way out. and it's terrible that old men in government and religious groups are trying to regulate personal choices.

[Matt]

am i the only one with no sympathy? it's the female's choice to either be protected, or not. if women are too lazy, or dumb enough to not care, why should they get the easy way out?


the only way i see abortion being justified, is if the woman was raped, and maybe that morning after pill. there could be other circumstances i'm not aware of, and i'm sure i'll be enlightened by someone.

what if having the baby will kill the mother? I knew a girl with a condidtion that if she had a baby, she'd die. she eventually had an abortion because of that. she feels horrible, but she understands that it had to be done, and no one blames her for it.

[Monsieur Decuts]

am i the only one with no sympathy? it's the female's choice to either be protected, or not. if women are too lazy, or dumb enough to not care, why should they get the easy way out?


the only way i see abortion being justified, is if the woman was raped, and maybe that morning after pill. there could be other circumstances i'm not aware of, and i'm sure i'll be enlightened by someone.

why should you have any say over what anyone else does with their body?

[zorra_chiflada]

does it irk anyone else when men judge women for having abortions? grow a uterus or shut the fuck up.

[Matt]

does it irk anyone else when men judge women for having abortions? grow a uterus or shut the fuck up.

I'm a man and I think men have no reason telling women what to do with their bodies. I don't think anyone has any business judging other people. I asked the idiot protesters what right they have judging anybody else, and dosent the bible say "Judge not, lest ye be judged"? I actually shouted it at them and used some choice swear words. They threw shit at my car. assholes.

[ToucanSpam]

okay, time to get serious.


Women should have the right to choose whether or not to have an abortion. It is not fair to those women who have been raped and are forced to carry a child that is not only unwanted, but is more or less a symbol of the lewd, disgusting act of rape. It is not just that the option of aborting a child is completely taken away from a woman.

I really do pity the women who now have to drive out of state just to get an abortion. This is a huge step backwards for equality.

[Monsieur Decuts]

well that's where I don't so much agree. if two people make a baby obviously two people should decide the fate of it. Its not like a man can force anything on the woman cause its her body, but she shouldn't except his penis in her if she doesn't believe he has a say in the any of the mistakes that can come from it....she shoudl stick to a vibrator

[cosmo105]

because, you know, women can always control men physically

fucking christ i hate this country.

[Bob]

I'm a man and I think men have no reason telling women what to do with their bodies. I don't think anyone has any business judging other people. I asked the idiot protesters what right they have judging anybody else, and dosent the bible say "Judge not, lest ye be judged"? I actually shouted it at them and used some choice swear words. They threw shit at my car. assholes.

you'd think they were without sin or something

[Matt]

you'd think they were without sin or something

a-ha ha ha. fuckers dented my car. :mad:

[Matt]

Its not like a man can force anything on the woman cause its her body,

are you being serious? last time I checked, this happened all the time. it's called rape.

[cosmo105]

Heh, this was in the Gen.Pol. like weeks ago.

South Dakota sucks anyways, I do believe it will be challenged and totally owned by the Fed. Supreme Court.
not with new mr. alito on the bench. i'm terrified. but honestly, i think that if roe v. wade IS overturned, it won't be long before it's challenged. people just won't stand for it.

[ToucanSpam]

This is what happens in a fucking patriarchal society.

[Matt]

not with new mr. alito on the bench. i'm terrified. but honestly, i think that if roe v. wade IS overturned, it won't be long before it's challenged. people just won't stand for it.

the'll riot in the streets! RIOT IN THE STREETS!

[CJM]

there could be other circumstances i'm not aware of, and i'm sure i'll be enlightened by someone.


it is very true men don't have a uterus, but women do, and in the end, it's their responsibilty to be safe and shit against getting pregnant.

condoms aren't the only way to protect yourself from getting pregnant.

getting an abortion after being raped is one thing, but being too much of a pussy to take precautions is another.

[ASsman]

not with new mr. alito on the bench. i'm terrified. but honestly, i think that if roe v. wade IS overturned, it won't be long before it's challenged. people just won't stand for it.
Buh, I just hope it's the next step into this countries self destruction.

And for some reason I don't think discussion will be much more intellingent in the Beastie-Free, atleast not as informed.

[zorra_chiflada]

yes that's right, only their responsibility. not the man's responsibility. he can put his dick wherever he wants. AND IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE HE CAN'T GET PREGNANT.

ain't it great to be a man?




:rolleyes:

[ASsman]

I take great offense to that!

And yes. It is.

[CJM]

^^women can say no, can they not?

[Matt]

it is very true men don't have a uterus, but women do, and in the end, it's their responsibilty to be safe and shit against getting pregnant.

condoms aren't the only way to protect yourself from getting pregnant.

getting an abortion after being raped is one thing, but being too much of a pussy to take precautions is another.

even if you combine condoms with other forms of birth control, there is still a chance you'll get pregnant. thats why the commercials say abstinance is the only way to be completly safe.

Why is it the woman's sole responsiblity? I think the burden rests equally on the man and woman, and both have to be safe. Thats an incredibly stupid way of thinking.

[zorra_chiflada]

^^women can say no, can they not?

oh of course they can. every time they have sex on every occasion, they only do it if they want to

and a guy will always pull out when he says he will. of course.


:rolleyes:

[P of R]

The day this happens in Sweden I'm moving out.

[Matt]

^^women can say no, can they not?

not when he's holding her down.

[Bob]

i'm pretty sure it takes two people to make a baby, they taught us that one in 5th grade. just because the woman has to hold it in for nine months doesn't mean that she's more responsible for the conception than the man is. i really don't see where you're coming from there.

[cosmo105]

^^women can say no, can they not?
you can't possibly be that stupid. what if she's intoxicated and can't respond, or has been slipped something and is passed out? what if the man overpowers her? do you know how often this happens?

[Auton]

good old can o' worms

[ASsman]

Can we go back to the point. We aren't arguing the circustances under which it would be moraly right in your opinions. I as would anyone with half a brain, could care less if you can sleep at night after you had an abortion.

We are arguing is women have a right to do as they please with their bodies. Science and fact vs. Religions/Moral beliefs. Right of women vs. Governmental Moralistic control.

[zorra_chiflada]

and don't forget about emotional blackmail. most girls lose their virginity by a guy making them feel bad.

[Auton]

eh, i'd say that's generalizing a bit

[Monsieur Decuts]

are you being serious? last time I checked, this happened all the time. it's called rape.

i meant as far as her choice...i should have clarified...its not like a man can force a women to have an abortion if he wants one and she doesn't...or vica versa, my point is that a man should definetly have a say ( in the case of mistakes) but obviously can't have the ultimate decision. By no means was I even touching on rape, although it pretty much sounded like thats what I was saying.

[P of R]

eh, i'd say that's generalizing a bit

[Monsieur Decuts]

and don't forget about emotional blackmail. most girls lose their virginity by a guy making them feel bad.

o lord...well a lot of stupid people lost their shirts investing in Enron.

[zorra_chiflada]

i went to an all-girls school, i saw this all the fucking time. i'm not making this up.

[Monsieur Decuts]

Yes and I've seen it a lot too from my macho frat boy dickhead friends, i'm just saying....that's a weak argument.

[ASsman]

Can we go back to the point. We aren't arguing the circustances under which it would be moraly right in your opinions. I as would anyone with half a brain, could care less if you can sleep at night after you had an abortion.

We are arguing is women have a right to do as they please with their bodies. Science and fact vs. Religions/Moral beliefs. Right of women vs. Governmental Moralistic control.

[Auton]

yes i know plenty of girls lose their virginity because they are pressured into doing so. but saying that it is most of the reason that happens is stretching it. you're making it seems like all girls are nuns or something

[zorra_chiflada]

why? i was demonstrating that women don't always have the choice to not have sex, in response to CJM who seems to think they do. my argument was in response to him, that's all

[monkey]

the whole point is that there is too much at stake in very different situations for the government to be able to pick and choose what they want women to do. it shouldnt be a decision made by anyone except those involved in the process. the government needs to keep away.

[ASsman]

why? i was demonstrating that women don't always have the choice to not have sex, in response to CJM who seems to think they do.
I think that detracts from the real argument here. Not saying what you are saying isn't valid. It just isn't helping the real problem here.

Right to ones body.


Thanks pauli.

[cookiepuss]

For anyone who is as upset about this as I am about this, one thing you can do is join NARAL Pro-Choice America. If you choose, thier site will send you email updates on the latest abortion rights news. they also offer ways for you to volunteer, send letters to your state officals and other wise make your voice heard. http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/index.html (http://)


I don't know how much good it will do, but I certainly feel better getting involved. (y)

[ToucanSpam]

yes i know plenty of girls lose their virginity because they are pressured into doing so. but saying that it is most of the reason that happens is stretching it. you're making it seems like all girls are nuns or something
Good point.

To say 'most girls lose their virginity by a guy making them feel bad' is a generalization.

[ASsman]

Should be called Pro-Right , but that's just me.

[ToucanSpam]

the whole point is that there is too much at stake in very different situations for the government to be able to pick and choose what they want women to do. it shouldnt be a decision made by anyone except those involved in the process. the government needs to keep away.

Yessssssss


It is unfair to dictate to people by law what they can and cannot do to their bodies in a medical sense.

[roosta]

Yessssssss


It is unfair to dictate to people by law what they can and cannot do to their bodies in a medical sense.

Read your Bible, son.

[ASsman]

Yessssssss


It is unfair to dictate to people by law what they can and cannot do to their bodies in a medical sense.
Also, while we are on the topic of clarification. We aren't taking about shooting babies as they fly out of their mothers.

"PULL!"

We are talking about fetuses, undeveloped. A fertilized egg with arms. We kill monkeys all the time, should we not because they look like humans? Also with more options and choices and education we can begin the aborting a lot sooner, maybe at a level you nut jobs find "humane" .

Read your Bible, son.
HAhaha

[ToucanSpam]

Read your Bible, son.

There's nothing in the bible worth reading. Moses kills a snake, the 4 Horsemen are coming to kill us, the end.

[cookiepuss]

if you think this is gonna end with south dakota you're mistaken. here's a list of the other states planning similar legislation: Anti-choice lawmakers are pushing similar unconstitutional legislation in Alabama, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, and West Virginia, all with the intent of ending the right to choose through the courts. :(

[cosmo105]

none of those states are a surprise...ugh.

[CJM]

if a woman is dumb enough to accept "pulling out" as birth control, then she deserves a baby.

if a woman gets drunk, then she isn't responsible for anything that happens at all. :rolleyes:

matt, get your mind outta the rape gutter, man.

i think the man and the woman should take the responsibilty of prenancy. nowadays, everyone knows the risks of sex, and by doing it they acknowledge what could happen and should take the responsibilty. sex is taken lightly now, but it can end up being a life changing deal (STDs, and pregnancy).

[ASsman]

I'm glad you think that. More people should, just because that's the case doesn't mean someone should tell me what I should do with my body.

[cosmo105]

you're right in that the man should take responsibility as well. but if, for example, he wanted to keep the baby and she didn't? that's not his place to say.

and you're very wrong when you say most people know the risks of sex. sex education funding has been slashed immensely, and our lovely current administration has encouraged a hush-hush policy on it. basically, if you don't tell kids how to have sex, or what happens when you do, they won't do it! and abstinence is the only choice they have!

yeah fucking right. :rolleyes:

people are going to have unprotected sex, especially young, undereducated, underprivileged people, and it's going to lead to more and more unwanted children perpetuating the cycle.

[cookiepuss]

if a woman is dumb enough to accept "pulling out" as birth control, then she deserves a baby.

if a woman gets drunk, then she isn't responsible for anything that happens at all. :rolleyes:

matt, get your mind outta the rape gutter, man.

i think the man and the woman should take the responsibilty of prenancy. nowadays, everyone knows the risks of sex, and by doing it they acknowledge what could happen and should take the responsibilty. sex is taken lightly now, but it can end up being a life changing deal (STDs, and pregnancy).

that's great except banning abortion won't force people to take on responsibility of having children. It will cause them to seek illegal abortions, done by unsafe measures (possibly leading to thier death). It might also cause alot of women to abandon thier new born children (in churches, hospitals or even worse garbage cans)that they never wanted in the first place. Those poor children will then have to be brought up in our foster care or welfare system that is not without it's flaws. so I really don't see how baning abortion is the lesser of evils.

[cosmo105]

that's great except banning abortion won't force people to take on responsibility of having children. It will cause them to seek illegal abortions, done by unsafe measures (possibly leading to thier death). It might also cause alot of women to abandon thier new born children (in churches, hospitals or even worse garbage cans)they never wanted in the first place. Those poor children will then have to be brought up in our foster care or welfare system that is not without it's flaws. so I really don't see how baning abortion is the lesser of evils.
thank you. *applauds*

[g-mile7]

If it takes two to make a baby and the guy wants the kid why should he give up his supposed "parental rights" if the girl doesn't want the kid? You always hear this beef with "guys do this, pigs, dead beat" etc., but a guy should have some say in the matter if he really does show that he wants this kid. It might be the women's body, but it is also his kid.

[franscar]

if a woman is dumb enough to accept "pulling out" as birth control, then she deserves a baby.

if a woman gets drunk, then she isn't responsible for anything that happens at all. :rolleyes:

Aren't these the kind of women who really oughtn't be mothering the next generation?

i think the man and the woman should take the responsibilty of prenancy. nowadays, everyone knows the risks of sex, and by doing it they acknowledge what could happen and should take the responsibilty. sex is taken lightly now, but it can end up being a life changing deal (STDs, and pregnancy).

Everyone should know the risks, yes. That's more a question of sex education at an early age though.

A few years back my ex had an abortion. Split condom. We actually split up before she realised she was pregnant, and she made the decision to have an abortion before consulting me. I don't think she would've changed her mind had I been totally against the idea, but obviously I don't know. At the time neither of us were capable of being decent parents and I've never read or seen anything that has so far made me question whether we made the right decision.

I am incredibly happy that I live in a country where we could still make that decision.

[cosmo105]

If it takes two to make a baby and the guy wants the kid why should he give up his supposed "parental rights" if the girl doesn't want the kid? You always hear this beef with "guys do this, pigs, dead beat" etc., but a guy should have some say in the matter if he really does show that he wants this kid. It might be the women's body, but it is also his kid.


then maybe he should find someone else to knock up.

[zorra_chiflada]

If it takes two to make a baby and the guy wants the kid why should he give up his supposed "parental rights" if the girl doesn't want the kid? You always hear this beef with "guys do this, pigs, dead beat" etc., but a guy should have some say in the matter if he really does show that he wants this kid. It might be the women's body, but it is also his kid.

of course he does.

but the people who make the decisions and judgements have nothing to do with anything!

[cosmo105]

of course he does.

but the people who make the decisions and judgements have nothing to do with anything!
that's the real point. it's no one's say but the people involved.

[ToucanSpam]

if you think this is gonna end with south dakota you're mistaken. here's a list of the other states planning similar legislation: Anti-choice lawmakers are pushing similar unconstitutional legislation in Alabama, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, and West Virginia, all with the intent of ending the right to choose through the courts. :(


BIBLE BELT!

[monkey]

If it takes two to make a baby and the guy wants the kid why should he give up his supposed "parental rights" if the girl doesn't want the kid? You always hear this beef with "guys do this, pigs, dead beat" etc., but a guy should have some say in the matter if he really does show that he wants this kid. It might be the women's body, but it is also his kid.

at which point it becomes something the man and the woman discuss together. not the man and the woman are forced to do what the government tells them to do.

what men and women decide is a different issue than whats at hand. do you want the government controlling your choices or lack thereof? especially a choice as important as procreating.

[g-mile7]

then maybe he should find someone else to knock up.





Good job ignoring the point and placing all parental power in the hands of the women. No really, equality is your strong point.

[cookiepuss]

BIBLE BELT!

^yeah. Sadly though, I figure if Bush could get re-elected, I'm not ruling out the possibility that these bible thumper states can over turn Roe vs. Wade. :mad:

[cosmo105]

Good job ignoring the point and placing all parental power in the hands of the women. No really, equality is your strong point.
what?

don't make this into another one of your stupid personal battles with me. this is a serious issue.

[g-mile7]

at which point it becomes something the man and the woman discuss together. not the man and the woman are forced to do what the government tells them to do.

what men and women decide is a different issue than whats at hand. do you want the government controlling your choices or lack thereof? especially a choice as important as procreating.


I was answering the point of the man having his supposed "rights' being affected...if the man shows that he isn't a druggie and didn't rape her then thats completley diffrent. If he is trully dedicated and his child's mother is the one who is lazy, why should he be affected because of this? There is so many diffrent situtions , but people fail to see this one on both sides of the field.

[g-mile7]

of course he does.

but the people who make the decisions and judgements have nothing to do with anything!


That's true, I wasn't talking about the goverment only the abuse of power in the relationship in some situtions.

[Schmeltz]

If it takes two to make a baby and the guy wants the kid why should he give up his supposed "parental rights" if the girl doesn't want the kid?


Because he's not the one forcing it out a one-inch hole. He wants the kid, let him birth it.

[g-mile7]

Because he's not the one forcing it out a one-inch hole. He wants the kid, let him birth it.



And how will he "birth" this kid may I ask?

[zorra_chiflada]

I was answering the point of the man having his supposed "rights' being affected...if the man shows that he isn't a druggie and didn't rape her then thats completley diffrent. If he is trully dedicated and his child's mother is the one who is lazy, why should he be affected because of this? There is so many diffrent situtions , but people fail to see this one on both sides of the field.


maybe he should carry the baby for nine months then. pregnancy isn't just popping a kid out in a few months, it's your body undergoing a complete transformation.

[Auton]

And how will he "birth" this kid may I ask?

i think that's his point

[ToucanSpam]

Good job ignoring the point and placing all parental power in the hands of the women. No really, equality is your strong point.
G, I'm calling you on this because I can.


Cosmo isn't ignoring the point. She is simply stating that women DO have the final say into the decision to abort or not abort. it is about equality, that's where the discussing comes in. However, ultimately it is the women who chooses to abort or not, whether the man wants the kid or not.

[cosmo105]

i can't imagine how trying it would be to be forced to carry a child i didn't want just so someone else could have it. it really should be a deal between two people - and if the one that actually has to go through the work doesn't want to go through with it, then it's not meant to happen.

[Schmeltz]

i think that's his point


Jep. Fact is, you can't force a woman to have your baby. You're not exactly going halves in the production anyway - it's nine months of work for her and about twenty minutes of good times for you.

[franscar]

i can't imagine how trying it would be to be forced to carry a child i didn't want just so someone else could have it.

And that's the reason, for me anyway, why the whole adoption argument falls flat on its face.

[cosmo105]

And that's the reason, for me anyway, why the whole adoption argument falls flat on its face.
mhm. adoption's nice when it can happen and all parties involved are willing...but you can't FORCE someone to carry an unwanted child and go through the pain of childbirth!

[ToucanSpam]

^yeah. Sadly though, I figure if Bush could get re-elected, I'm not ruling out the possibility that these bible thumper states can over turn Roe vs. Wade. :mad:


Please don't mention the possibility of him returning to office. I already have nightmares of Cheney shooting me in the face.


If only men could see what it's like to carry a child for 9 months inside them...

[cosmo105]

men can pass stones, but they don't have them sticking out of their bellies and screwing with their hormones for 9 months.

[ToucanSpam]

Not to mention up to 100 hours in labor.

There is NO male equivalent for that.

[franscar]

If only men could see what it's like to carry a child for 9 months inside them...

http://www.antoniogenna.net/doppiaggio/film/junior.jpg

[zorra_chiflada]

and your body never being the same again

[ToucanSpam]

http://www.antoniogenna.net/doppiaggio/film/junior.jpg
Hollywood isn't real. Sorry.

[roosta]

Not to mention up to 100 hours in labor.

There is NO male equivalent for that.

women never get flicked in the nuts tho. that's the worst ever.

[g-mile7]

G, I'm calling you on this because I can.


Cosmo isn't ignoring the point. She is simply stating that women DO have the final say into the decision to abort or not abort. it is about equality, that's where the discussing comes in. However, ultimately it is the women who chooses to abort or not, whether the man wants the kid or not.




And you find this fair? So they can demand child support, take the guy to court for it and get it (in most cases), but then the guy has no say on what happens to his own "future" child? Sounds pretty fucked up to me.

[cj hood]

maybe he should carry the baby for nine months then. pregnancy isn't just popping a kid out in a few months, it's your body undergoing a complete transformation.


tell us more mrs. science....

[cosmo105]

oh god, my sex ed teacher had the worst horror story. something like it was 36 hours and the placenta went all over the place inside her and it was like black crap in her vagina that they had to surgically remove. that scared the shit out of all of the girls in my class. they called my highschool "babymaker," though.


that man's my governor

[ToucanSpam]

women never get flicked in the nuts tho. that's the worst ever.
I dunno. I'd imagine being in labor for 100 hours is like being kicked in the nuts for 100 hours.

[g-mile7]

maybe he should carry the baby for nine months then. pregnancy isn't just popping a kid out in a few months, it's your body undergoing a complete transformation.



Nobody said it was easy now, you getting the facts twisted on what I am talking about in a way.

Well if we're just talking about it as I am saying, that these are two people just having sex just to do it, then an accident occurs just because the girl doesn't want to go through that stress and rather abort the guy's potential kid(keyword:potential) the father shoudln't have any say or power? I am sorry, but not all guys are jerks and some really want to be there. Even if the women might not.

[The Notorious LOL]

yeah the abortion clinics on the edges of the state borders will be making a killing *ba dum ching*



how come no one lol'd at this? :(

[zorra_chiflada]

of course the guy has a say. of course he does. but he can't force a woman to keep a baby

[zorra_chiflada]

how come no one lol'd at this? :(
i did :)

[cosmo105]

you try menstruating every month.

let's say an average woman starts when she's about 12...and stops when she's about, say, 50. and that's being very generous. a lot of the women i know keep going wayyy past that.

so that's 38 years, right?

subtract, say, 21 months for 3 kids...and we'll say maybe she skips 3 or 4 due to stress occasionally...



that's 431 times.




i'd rather get my imaginary nuts bashed in on rare occasion than have a miserable, several-days-long inconvenience that i can set my watch to.

[zorra_chiflada]

tell us more mrs. science....

all the posts on this page saying the same thing, and you pick mine? wtf?

[g-mile7]

of course the guy has a say. of course he does. but he can't force a woman to keep a baby



Legally he could, but that still couldn't "stop" her from keeping the woman. When it comes to abortion we seem to look at it one sided when, in some cases, it's more then one sided.

[zorra_chiflada]

you try menstruating every month.

let's say an average woman starts when she's about 12...and stops when she's about, say, 50. and that's being very generous. a lot of the women i know keep going wayyy past that.

so that's 38 years, right?

subtract, say, 21 months for 3 kids...and we'll say maybe she skips 3 or 4 due to stress occasionally...



that's 431 times.




i'd rather get my imaginary nuts bashed in on rare occasion than have a miserable, several-days-long inconvenience that i can set my watch to.


and that's if you don't have endometriosis :(

[roosta]

seriously, getting a smack on the sack is the worst thing ever. im not even talking about a kicking, i mean a light across the nuts slap, if administered with accuracy and speed can be fatal.

[ToucanSpam]

And you find this fair? So they can demand child support, take the guy to court for it and get it (in most cases), but then the guy has no say on what happens to his own "future" child? Sounds pretty fucked up to me.

What?

Jesus....

Yes it's fair that a woman has the right to choose whether or not she has the child or not, regardless of what the father says.

I don't see the connection between abortion and child support, though. You'll have to explain that.

[cosmo105]

seriously, getting a smack on the sack is the worst thing ever. im not even talking about a kicking, i mean a light across the nuts slap, if administered with accuracy and speed can be fatal.
nuts are so funny-looking. it's great to go BRAAPPPPP right across them.

[g-mile7]

you try menstruating every month.

let's say an average woman starts when she's about 12...and stops when she's about, say, 50. and that's being very generous. a lot of the women i know keep going wayyy past that.

so that's 38 years, right?

subtract, say, 21 months for 3 kids...and we'll say maybe she skips 3 or 4 due to stress occasionally...



that's 431 times.




i'd rather get my imaginary nuts bashed in on rare occasion than have a miserable, several-days-long inconvenience that i can set my watch to.





This has nothing to do with your period. It has all to do with two adults who were "mature" enough to have sex (in some cases) then having one of the members have power over a child it took both of them to start to create.

23+23=46(get my science on for a minute)

[g-mile7]

What?

Jesus....

Yes it's fair that a woman has the right to choose whether or not she has the child or not, regardless of what the father says.

I don't see the connection between abortion and child support, though. You'll have to explain that.


Your not seeing the point, maybe trying to be too in the middle here? Simple fact is it's his child too. End of story.

[roosta]

nuts are so funny-looking. it's great to go BRAAPPPPP right across them.

get out now boomin', NOW

[cosmo105]

i was talking about getting kicked in the nuts. granted, god slighted men when she put his vital berries in a little pouch outside his body and ours our tucked deep inside us. but periods AND having babies? no fair. :mad:



stop taking everything so personally

[g-mile7]

and as I stated before I feel abortion shoudln't be goverment decison but if there is more then two parties and the party that usally is blamed the most (the male) is actully a good guy who didn't rape the other party then the game is changed.

[The Notorious LOL]

"bitches gotta take their cunt pills, I aint wearin no gunny sack!"

[ToucanSpam]

A real sack-slap will make even Chuck Norris go 'owch'.

23+23=46? That may be correct, but 9 months of pregancy has no equal.

[monkey]

Legally he could, but that still couldn't "stop" her from keeping the woman. When it comes to abortion we seem to look at it one sided when, in some cases, it's more then one sided.

abortion one sided! omg! you are not seeing the argument here!

the two sides:

right to life: keep the pregnancy, regardless. abortion is murder, the government should regulate what women do to their bodies.

pro-choice: let the woman (or the couple. no one is denying the man to help in the decision too) decide what to do with a pregnancy. it is a personal choice the govt should have no control over.

[g-mile7]

abortion one sided! omg! you are not seeing the argument here!

the two sides:

right to life: keep the pregnancy, regardless. abortion is murder, the government should regulate what women do to their bodies.

pro-choice: let the woman (or the couple. no one is denying the man to help in the decision too) decide what to do with a pregnancy. it is a personal choice the govt should have no control over.



I said we(as in a nation) seem to see it one sided, I never said that any of us including myself see it as such.And from some of the arugments I have seen this bolded text is wrong.

[monkey]

but the point is, that's not the issue. whether or not the man is involved in the decision making is not the issue. i dont know why it was even brought up. the issue is the government being included unnecesarily! this is why there is so much unnecessary arguing. the nitty gritty of the issue is does the government have a right to tell a pregnant woman what to do. and i think it doesnt.

[g-mile7]

but the point is, that's not the issue. whether or notthe man is onvolved in the decision making is not the issue. i dont know why it was even brought up. the issue is the government being included unnecesarily!



I agree, I was just making an argument on a comment I saw posted in here. I didn't start it just wanted to provide the other side.

[ASsman]

Buh, I think your argument is moot G.

You are talking about two adults, should be a decision among the two I think. Government doesn't need to be anywhere. It's still two people arguing and not over another person. Still a matter of that womans body, I'm trying to think of an analogy but cannot think of one. Once the fetus becomes a person then goverment steps in to represent this kids rights. Until then though that fetus is still part of the womans body.

[g-mile7]

Buh, I think your argument is moot G.

You are talking about two adults, should be a decision among the two I think. Government doesn't need to be anywhere. It's still two people arguing and not over another person. Still a matter of that womans body, I'm trying to think of an analogy but cannot think of one. Once the fetus becomes a person then goverment steps in to represent this kids rights. Until then though that fetus is still part of the womans body.


I hope people see I am not talking bout rapist and shit, there are diffrent ways things could go down and just like in a child support case the guy must prove why he is a repsonbile adult, this wont happen (in terms of legal decisons) given the whole "time is of the essence" but many women need to realize that sterotyping a good portion of guys based on a few is flawed. It's easy to say "oh what if you had to carry the baby for 9months) etc given that argument will never be proven in temrs of science today but the fact is if the guys willing to care for the child for 18+ years I think it kind of kills the whole 9 month debate. Whatever the ladies might feel I never said abortion is wrong in terms of my thinking but in certain cases like this to just overpass good men just because of one's self thinking (it's my body) is wrong since it's BOTH your child and his that could develop. Thats why we see abortions more in out of wedlock type of "knocking up" as someone said given that most rather get rid of what could be a diffcult decison early. This is all opinion if they (those opposed to my thinking) don't like it and think I am attacking them they have too much time on their hands.

[CJM]

but the point is, that's not the issue. whether or not the man is involved in the decision making is not the issue. i dont know why it was even brought up. the issue is the government being included unnecesarily! this is why there is so much unnecessary arguing. the nitty gritty of the issue is does the government have a right to tell a pregnant woman what to do. and i think it doesnt.


so you think the goverment should have no say when it comes to abortions?

[cookiepuss]

so you think the goverment should have no say when it comes to abortions?

pretty much, yeah.

lets see if I can put this in perspective for you...would it be ok if the government told you you could not have....sperm any more. that they were going to take away your right to choose whether or not you want a child and just force you to be sterilzed? would it be ok for the government to decide if you were elligble for any medical procedure, be it a heart transplant to save your life or plastic surgery to fix the bump in your nose you've always hated?

if you can imagine what any of those situatons would feel like then you know what it's like to be a woman, emotionaly,financially and phsyically unprepared for pregnancy who is told that she has no say in what happens to her body and her well-being.

[CJM]

what would be so bad about the government regulating abortions and interviewing potential women?

[ASsman]

I hope people see I am not talking bout rapist and shit, there are diffrent ways things could go down and just like in a child support case the guy must prove why he is a repsonbile adult, this wont happen (in terms of legal decisons) given the whole "time is of the essence" but many women need to realize that sterotyping a good portion of guys based on a few is flawed. It's easy to say "oh what if you had to carry the baby for 9months) etc given that argument will never be proven in temrs of science today but the fact is if the guys willing to care for the child for 18+ years I think it kind of kills the whole 9 month debate. Whatever the ladies might feel I never said abortion is wrong in terms of my thinking but in certain cases like this to just overpass good men just because of one's self thinking (it's my body) is wrong since it's BOTH your child and his that could develop. Thats why we see abortions more in out of wedlock type of "knocking up" as someone said given that most rather get rid of what could be a diffcult decison early. This is all opinion if they (those opposed to my thinking) don't like it and think I am attacking them they have too much time on their hands.

Eh, I understand that. But I still think it should be the womans decision as far as far fetusus go. She could got for some other form , artificially and all.

e.g. If she is raped the man has no right to the fetus and later no right to the child because of his crime.
If she do is willingly I still don't see a mans right, since he has done nothing special to be awarded said rights to her body. It should be up to her to let you in on her decision, just make sure you find a woman who does respect you. I can see where this can backfire, for example someone who does so maliciously, it's a lot of grey though. It's still this womans right (IMO), you might get her ass in civil court though.

You might see it as a right of a parent, but there is no child born yet, so it is only a boyfriend/husband telling her wife what he think she should do. I don't know it's al ltoo grey for me.


so you think the goverment should have no say when it comes to abortions?
No I think the government shouldnt tell a woman what they can't or can't do with their bodies.

what would be so bad about the government regulating abortions and interviewing potential women?
The regulating part.

[SobaViolence]

conversations about abortion always zigzag around a bunch of stupid, less important and emotional topics.


no one can really understand until they are faced with the decision.

[CJM]

assman, you have to be more specific, your last two answers didn't make any sence.

[cosmo105]

interview women? what? why should OTHER people make the decision for them? that's the real issue here.

[Medellia]

And you find this fair? So they can demand child support, take the guy to court for it and get it (in most cases), but then the guy has no say on what happens to his own "future" child? Sounds pretty fucked up to me.
The guy can get child support from the woman if he has primary custody. But I fail to see what this has to do with abortion.

As for the guy not having any say....pregnancy causes pretty big changes to a woman's body. I'm not just talking about getting bigger, there are major hormonal changes. And it's not like she's instantly better after she has the kid. Plus there's the birth itself. That's alot of work. Painful work. Then you have to factor in the cost. Doctor's visits, neo-natal vitamins, the hosptial stay, etc. And that's assuming the mother is perfectly healthy and there are no complications. Of course she should talk to the guy about it, but if she really doesn't want it, then he's shit outta luck.

[Monsieur Decuts]

Do you ever wonder what the drive is to have all these babies born? Like what political gain there is to it (besides appeasing the christian right)? Why is the party sooo behind it, can't the see this place is pretty much over populated so much that the American Dream is a thing of the past?

I'd love to know opinions on the real reasons that everyone is ape shit over this.

[zorra_chiflada]

so you think the goverment should have no say when it comes to abortions?

of course they shouldn't! why do you think they should? why do you think it's any of their fucking business what a woman does with her body?

[Anne Lauren]

until a woman is forced to choose, no one knows just how difficult it is not to have as many choices as possible in this matter. god and religion should have nothing to do with medical procedures of this nature.

I could not agree with you more strongly. I, honestly, at one point in my life deep-down was almost kinda against abortions...as far as, how I was raised. Or, atleast, didn't really have an opinion one way or another, solely only because I had never really gave it much thought...until my junior year in highschool when my best friend found out she was pregnant by her boyfriend (some loser that treated her like shit). Now, you gotta understand my background...I grew up in an higher upper-middle class family, went to a small "judgemental" private highschool that kicked you out for smoking cigarettes and drinking alchohol, for God's sake. Everybody knew your business and loved to get "the dirty" on you...so, they could exaggerate it and talk about you at the hairdressers (God, I had to get out of that city...the overall ignorant mentality there, just drove me nuts) Anyway, she was devastated, in denial, and everything else imaginable...well, eventually, she told her mom and had an abortion. Well, the school found out somehow...and kicked her out. I was pissed and ever since then have had some underlying resentment towards my school, my up-bringing, my mother...I could go on and on. But, anyway, getting back to the point...that was a choice she made and only she could make because it was her body and her mistake. And, I can't stand people that judge people...and try and make choices for them.

[Knuckles]

of course they shouldn't! why do you think they should? why do you think it's any of their fucking business what a woman does with her body?
(y)

[CJM]

so, you propose a system where girls can come in anonymously, get an abortion, and be on their merry way? no checks and balances?

[Medellia]

so, you propose a system where girls can come in anonymously, get an abortion, and be on their merry way? no checks and balances?
I love how you say "girls" like the only people getting abortions are fourteen.

[zorra_chiflada]

medical history checks. but that's all.

[Justin]

I understand both sides of the abortion issue, but in most cases the bottom line is.....the couple didnt take responsibility to 'protect' before it happened and the others dont want the responsibility and are just looking for a way "out"

I believe a child is both the man's and the woman's therefore both should have a say in the outcome.

Some of us have enough responsibility not to put ourselves in a situation of an abortion in the first place!

[CJM]

meh, i got sick of saying women every sentence.

who do you think should pay for this?

[zorra_chiflada]

Some of us have enough responsibility not to put ourselves in a situation of an abortion in the first place!

well some people don't. and they're the last people who should have a child, don't you think?

[TimDoolan]

?
/ \
/___\ time.

[Anne Lauren]

so, you propose a system where girls can come in anonymously, get an abortion, and be on their merry way? no checks and balances?

Who me?

If so, no...I think that there definately needs to be some more thought put into that statement. I don't think anything that serious in life can be described that simply.

[zorra_chiflada]

meh, i got sick of saying women every sentence.

who do you think should pay for this?


i don't know how it works in the US. you have to pay every time you go near a doctor/hospital, don't you?

[CJM]

i'm from Canada, and we have free health care.

[zorra_chiflada]

well then, same way any procedure is paid for.

[Justin]

well some people don't. and they're the last people who should have a child, don't you think?

Absolutely!

Keep your pussies in your pants!

[Justin]

...or vagina's...whatever you ladies call it these days

[Anne Lauren]

I understand both sides of the abortion issue, but in most cases the bottom line is.....the couple didnt take responsibility to 'protect' before it happened and the others dont want the responsibility and are just looking for a way "out"

I believe a child is both the man's and the woman's therefore both should have a say in the outcome.

Some of us have enough responsibility not to put ourselves in a situation of an abortion in the first place!

Wow! I surely hope you never make a mistake in life.

And you say, a way out...a way out of what? I'm really just curious. You mean, a way out of having to spend future income, time, and energy on raising a child? What? That, maybe, you want a way out of having something "inconvienient" in your life?

Well, as matter of fact, and simple as that all sounds...there's a lot more that goes into why a woman may choose to have an abortion....believe it or not.

[Anne Lauren]

Absolutely!

Keep your pussies in your pants!

So, that's what the problem is...them damn sluts not keeping their pussies in their pants, huh? :rolleyes:

[CJM]

^that's probably part of it


well then, same way any procedure is paid for.


not sure what you mean. do you think the government should pay for it, or the person getting it done?

[zorra_chiflada]

^that's probably part of it





not sure what you mean. do you think the government should pay for it, or the person getting it done?


yes, the government should pay for it.
the government pays for operations for people who have lung cancer, or liver disease: mistakes that they made in their lives.

besides, taxpayer's money has gone to a lot worse places.

[CJM]

so you're saying that the government should foot the bill, but have no say in it?



i personally don't think it's fair that the government should have to pay for the dumbasses that smoke, know of the shit that goes down, and then end up getting sick.

[Justin]

I know theres A LOT of reasons why. I just think those are the 2 things that come up first and most often.

Im sure there's a chance of your condom bursting or whatever, but those are things you gotta think about before you have sex. Also, another reason why you shouldnt have one night stands, sex should mean something.

Lets just say I had a girlfriend for 2 years and we had a 'condom tragedy' and then she was pregnant, I would never think of her having an abortion. I'm sure she would to (cause a chick couldnt put up with me for 2 years if they didnt love me)

If I wasnt ready to have a child (and she wasnt either), I would go the adoption route. However, i know FOR A FACT that I'll never be in a situation where abortion is discussed.

I pick better women than that and sex is not the most important thing.

I know for a fact couples go through different situations, this is just me

I'm just a very very cool guy (y)

[zorra_chiflada]

so you're saying that the government should foot the bill, but have no say in it?



i personally don't think it's fair that the government should have to pay for the dumbasses that smoke, know of the shit that goes down, and then end up getting sick.


yep. that's right. in fact, rather than banning abortion, they should do all they can to make it a safer system and provide more counselling. that is all the involvement the government should have. rather than making it so no-one can ever have an abortion, they should set up a system that, if it's necessary, women can access it. it's all about freedom. and apparently america's all about freedom. so what's with that?

[Justin]

So, that's what the problem is...them damn sluts not keeping their pussies in their pants, huh? :rolleyes:

Exactly. I think its the tight pants some of you chicks wear. Its like your vagina's need air so they have to come out

[zorra_chiflada]

I know theres A LOT of reasons why. I just think those are the 2 things that come up first and most often.

Im sure there's a chance of your condom bursting or whatever, but those are things you gotta think about before you have sex. Also, another reason why you shouldnt have one night stands, sex should mean something.

Lets just say I had a girlfriend for 2 years and we had a 'condom tragedy' and then she was pregnant, I would never think of her having an abortion. I'm sure she would to (cause a chick couldnt put up with me for 2 years if they didnt love me)

If I wasnt ready to have a child (and she wasnt either), I would go the adoption route. However, i know FOR A FACT that I'll never be in a situation where abortion is discussed.

I pick better women than that and sex is not the most important thing.

I know for a fact couples go through different situations, this is just me

I'm just a very very cool guy (y)


so you'd make her carry a child around for nine months only to give it up at the end?

[Justin]

No no no, thats why i said (If I wasnt ready to have a child (and she wasnt either), I would go the adoption route. However, i know FOR A FACT that I'll never be in a situation where abortion is discussed.


It would be a joint decision.

In my view, killing a child because of my mistake, would not be the answer.

There! you got it out of me lol! Damn it I just want to play jeopardy :D


But again I know I wont have to go through this. So I really could care less

[Justin]

god damn it, I dont know anything about kevin costner!!

Fuck you trabek

[Rancid_Beasties]

I dont even want to get into this argument because the people arguing the pro-life side are generally religious nutjobs that like forcing their fairweather morality on others.

[Anne Lauren]

Exactly. I think its the tight pants some of you chicks wear. Its like your vagina's need air so they have to come out

Ya know, I'm about as dirted-minded, fowl-mouthed, crude-worded, sarcastic as they come...however, I think there is a time, place...and, yes, even thread on this silly message board to come across that way.

And, no, I'm not offended...infact, I think it's almost impossible for me to be offended by something. However, more or less, just giving a word of advice, I guess...comments like that make you come across as being some silly little immature ignorant boy...that must be, and granted I can only assume, trying to not be taken seriously. However, to each their own. (y)

[Justin]

ignore it, play jeopardy

[Medellia]

Lets just say I had a girlfriend for 2 years and we had a 'condom tragedy' and then she was pregnant, I would never think of her having an abortion. I'm sure she would to (cause a chick couldnt put up with me for 2 years if they didnt love me)
There are plenty of married couples that go through unwanted pregnancies that end in abortion. And I'm sure the vast majority love each other. Love has nothing to do with that decision in most cases.
If I wasnt ready to have a child (and she wasnt either), I would go the adoption route. However, i know FOR A FACT that I'll never be in a situation where abortion is discussed.
It's not your decision to make though. You aren't the one who would have to carry it for nine months, potentially have health problems related to pregnancy, and give birth only to have the kid put up for adoption. And even then you have no way of knowing if your kid is adopted.

[zorra_chiflada]

I dont even want to get into this argument because the people arguing the pro-life side are generally religious nutjobs that like forcing their fairweather morality on others.

or just women-haters.

[Justin]

Ya know, I'm about as dirted-minded, fowl-mouthed, crude-worded, sarcastic as they come...however, I think there is a time, place...and, yes, even thread on this silly message board to come across that way.

And, no, I'm not offended...infact, I think it's almost impossible for me to be offended by something. However, more or less, just giving a word of advice, I guess...comments like that make you come across as being some silly little immature ignorant boy...that must be, and granted I can only assume, trying to not be taken seriously. However, to each their own. (y)


Now im affended, you called me a boy instead of a man (y)


dont even think about it!

anyways,

I was being totally sarcastic, in a dry sense of humor sorta way (y)

[Anne Lauren]

ignore it, play jeopardy

Well, start a Jeopardy-themed thread, then...duh!

[Medellia]

In my view, killing a child because of my mistake, would not be the answer.
it's not a child at that point. It's a cluster of cells. It wouldn't even be remotely close to being able to survive outside of the mother at the point where the vast majority of women would get an abortion.

[Justin]

There are plenty of married couples that go through unwanted pregnancies that end in abortion. And I'm sure the vast majority love each other. Love has nothing to do with that decision in most cases.

It's not your decision to make though. You aren't the one who would have to carry it for nine months, potentially have health problems related to pregnancy, and give birth only to have the kid put up for adoption. And even then you have no way of knowing if your kid is adopted.

Those married couples need to think about what their doing.


In my posts, Im just saying what I would do in a total fictional situation regarding my life.

In any situation, not just this abortion thing, I try not to put myself in other peoples shoes because I know others have their own lifes and different situations and it would be unfair to judge their decisions.

I just do what i think is best regarding my life.

[Justin]

it's not a child at that point. It's a cluster of cells. It wouldn't even be remotely close to being able to survive outside of the mother at the point where the vast majority of women would get an abortion.

Damn you lol! :D

Science can be brought up in any argument and you'll never be wrong. There's always two sides.

Your argueing unfairly :p

[Justin]

Well, start a Jeopardy-themed thread, then...duh!

I was tryin to find the online price is right game, but i cant find it. Stupid bastards took the free game offline so they can make money on the new dvd game.

scumbags (n)

[CJM]

is there there a definate answer on the abortion question? no. i think the only way a fair(ish) decision could be made, is if it is put to vote. even then, not everyone will be happy, and someone is always gonna get fucked.

[Medellia]

Those married couples need to think about what their doing.
If you think they haven't then you're a fucking idiot. Abortion isn't something that you do just to be zany and spontanieous. It's huge and requires a lot of thought. Most of the time in the cases of married couples they already have kids, don't want anymore, and the pill didn't work. It's not as black and white as you seem to think it is. It's also not your place to say what other people do with their own bodies, but apparently you haven't caught on to that yet.
In my posts, Im just saying what I would do in a total fictional situation regarding my life.
It's fine for you to say what YOU would do, but you have no idea what this fictional girlfriend would do in real life. It's one thing to say that you would do something, but you have no way of knowing what would actually happen if this hypothetical situation became a reality. Besides, it wouldn't be your choice anyway.
In any situation, not just this abortion thing, I try not to put myself in other peoples shoes because I know others have their own lifes and different situations and it would be unfair to judge their decisions.
Actually putting yourself in someone else's shoes would be a GOOD thing in this situation.
I just do what i think is best regarding my life.
That's all well and good until it affects someone else's life.

[Anne Lauren]

I was tryin to find the online price is right game, but i cant find it. Stupid bastards took the free game offline so they can make money on the new dvd game.

scumbags (n)

Uhhh...that's a statement that belongs in your new thread that you're going to create, right?!

[Justin]

I agree with that. Just like politics

It really bothered me during the last election when people voted for either kerry or bush just for the abortion issue! I mean common! Don't people realize theirs other problems!

Open up your ears and clean out your eyes America!

[Justin]

Uhhh...that's a statement that belongs in your new thread that you're going to create, right?!

Im not playing jeopardy anymore. I also have to keep posting here cause people keep quoting me.

mean mean mean people :p


suggest a game to play


see i like this better than starting a new post...its like...abortion to games...brilliant (y)

[Medellia]

Damn you lol! :D

Science can be brought up in any argument and you'll never be wrong. There's always two sides.
Ah, people can claim "facts" in the name of science and be wrong. Like those who claim that fetuses can feel the pain of the abortion before the nervous system is even developed. So no, there isn't science for both sides. And sometimes, one side is just plain WRONG.
Your argueing unfairly :p
I'm arguing unfairly by using logic and common sense? Wow.

[Medellia]

is there there a definate answer on the abortion question? no. i think the only way a fair(ish) decision could be made, is if it is put to vote. even then, not everyone will be happy, and someone is always gonna get fucked.
That's still someone telling somebody else what to do with their own body. Which is wrong.

[Rancid_Beasties]

or just women-haters.
Usually those women haters are also deeply religious. More often than not, the women hating is bred into the religion itself.

[Anne Lauren]

I agree with that. Just like politics

It really bothered me during the last election when people voted for either kerry or bush just for the abortion issue! I mean common! Don't people realize theirs other problems!

Open up your ears and clean out your eyes America!

Well, ya see, that's what's so beautiful about the whole process...people can vote for, chose to live their life, make their own decisions about, etc... anything/in anyway they want to. It is their decision to make, for whatever reason...and they don't need your approval, one way or another.

[Medellia]

Well, ya see, that's what's so beautiful about the whole process...people can vote for, chose to live their life, make their own decisions about, etc... anything/in anyway they want to. It is their decision to make, for whatever reason...and they don't need your approval, one way or another.
Well said. And clean out your PM box. :p

[Justin]

Well, ya see, that's what's so beautiful about the whole process...people can vote for, chose to live their life, make their own decisions about, etc... anything/in anyway they want to. It is their decision to make, for whatever reason...and they don't need your approval, one way or another.

That may be true if they are thinking about either buying a snickers bar or a butterfinger, rather than voting for a president for your country.

Im getting away from this thread now, so I won't be pulled out of my apartment and beaten and burned by the women (y)

I love you all though

[Rancid_Beasties]

Alot of guys here agree with "the women"

[Justin]

I like ur sig. From the original intergalactic song. That beat was dope!

[Anne Lauren]

That may be true if they are thinking about either buying a snickers bar or a butterfinger, rather than voting for a president for your country.

Im getting away from this thread now, so I won't be pulled out of my apartment and beaten and burned by the women (y)

I love you all though

So, basically (and I'm not being a smartass either), you're saying that unless it's important to you, can affect your life in anyway, and/or is along the same lines as your line of reasoning...then, it's wrong, invalid, and insignifigant.

A tad narrow-minded...ya think? (lb)

[Rancid_Beasties]

I like ur sig. From the original intergalactic song. That beat was dope!
(y)

[Justin]

i never heard anything like that, ever!.."this is the beat, this is the beat"...so simple, so effective

[Justin]

So, basically (and I'm not being a smartass either), you're saying that unless it's important to you, can affect your life in anyway, and/or is along the same lines as your line of reasoning...then, it's wrong, invalid, and insignifigant.

A tad narrow-minded...ya think? (lb)


Our president is an IDIOT! Thats not being narrow minded, its just the truth!

[Medellia]

Our president is an IDIOT! Thats not being narrow minded, its just the truth!
I don't get the connection between what Anne said and your comment.

[Anne Lauren]

Our president is an IDIOT! Thats not being narrow minded, its just the truth!

He's an idiot, huh? Well, I can understand you not agreeing with how he might chose to handle matters, his views/stance on certain issues, his speech presentations, etc...however, I don't see how any person that is a well educated Yale alumni could be considered an "IDIOT"...rather they are in a public office, or not.

[Medellia]

He's an idiot, huh? Well, I can understand you not agreeing with how he might chose to handle matters, his views/stance on certain issues, his speech presentations, etc...however, I don't see how any person that is a well educated Yale alumni could be considered an "IDIOT"...rather they are in a public office, or not.
Eh, with the connections he's got (not to mention the rich daddy) it wouldn't be hard for him to get in. and get decent marks.

[roosta]

has anyone considered what the foetus's think of all this?

[zorra_chiflada]

he didn't get good marks, did he? i thought he was a C student

[Justin]

Im a very openminded person. I respect your opinions and anyone elses for that matter.

I care about other people, I really do. I'd rather help a friend than help myself.

In any argument you are gonna get narrowminded comments because people are gonna feel strongly for one side and that's only natural.

Isnt that how arguments come about? One side feeling strongly for one side and the other side for the other?

[Justin]

Yale Alumni or C student. He shouldnt be running this country

[roosta]

Yale Alumni or C student. He shouldnt be running this country

do you actually think BUSH runs the country?

[Anne Lauren]

Eh, with the connections he's got (not to mention the rich daddy) it wouldn't be hard for him to get in. and get decent marks.

Well, yeah you're right, to a large degree...it would be naive to think otherwise. None the less, my point, was to Justin that he seems to be criticizing "everyone else" for being ignorant, unwise, and petty for the "decisions" they make in life...when, in fact, he's the one that's coming across as being ignorant, solely for the fact that he thinks everyone else is that way.

Plus, he's just making dumbass comments. :D

[Justin]

but those are my narrowminded comments :p


However I'm sure there are others here that can factually back my comments up.

Anyways, nice talking to you people.

Love you all, or at least most of ya ;)

[Justin]

do you actually think BUSH runs the country?



Im really not sure what he's doing to be honest with you

Maybe he needs to take another 5 week vacation on his ranch or something



night (y)

[Anne Lauren]

Im a very openminded person. I respect your opinions and anyone elses for that matter.

I care about other people, I really do. I'd rather help a friend than help myself.

In any argument you are gonna get narrowminded comments because people are gonna feel strongly for one side and that's only natural.

Isnt that how arguments come about? One side feeling strongly for one side and the other side for the other?

No one's arguing, here...atleast I'm not.

And, I guess for the most part, you're not either. You're not really throwing out any base material to argue over...you're just throwing out opinions and not backing them up.

Ok, so you disagree with abortions...alright, why? And, because girls need to quit throwing their pussies out...is not a valid answer. Then, you say, Bush is an idiot. OK...why? And, because he was a C student in college and shouldn't be running this country...is not a valid answer, either.

If you have strong opinions on these matters...then, sound like you have some intelligence and back them up with facts...not more opinions.

[Rancid_Beasties]

RE George Bush

I'm not exactly sure about the system in the US, but here someone of above average intelligence can get into the most prestigious university and pass if they have the money. Paying your uni fees upfront can give you a discount of more than 10 marks out of 100...(our highschool marks are determined on a percentile basis, ie a 99.40 would put you in the top .6% of high school finishers). As an indicator, you cant get into melbourne university with a score below 90. But if you get 80 and pay, you can.

PS. What ever happened to rule by merit, rather than by privillege and birth, in America? Bush may be a good campaigner, but you can't argue hes the best candidate in America for president.

[Medellia]

Damn, Anne, I had no idea you were so hardcore about this. That's not to say I thought you were a pro-lifer, but I didn't think you were so passionate about reproductive rights either. (y)

[Rancid_Beasties]

I'm pretty sure shes mentioned it before. Although its a good example that abortion is an issue that transcends party lines.

[Anne Lauren]

Damn, Anne, I had no idea you were so hardcore about this. That's not to say I thought you were a pro-lifer, but I didn't think you were so passionate about reproductive rights either. (y)

Yeah, there's a lot of things about me (like, I'm sure, along with other people on this board) that people might not know/view about me. I'm a multi-dementional, complex person...just like everybody else. (y)

[Anne Lauren]

As for me, I'm not really "pro-anything" in life. I'm not an activist, a protester, nor a crusader...I'm all about people expressing every different opinion and belief out there, on all sorts of matters. I guess, I'm just real adimate (sp.) about a person being educated and knowledgeable, in general, on the subject, first...and not just speaking out of ignorance. And, if the person doesn't know and wants to know more about it...then, they find a way to learn, whatever means possible.

And, I'm sincerely, not calling Justin out, at all. Just merely stating my feelings on the matter. (y)

[Anne Lauren]

Well said. And clean out your PM box. :p

Hey, sorry, just now read that...the pm's are clean, now.

[monkey]

although the discussions border on stupid sometimes, I'm really glad that this thread has brought a lot of thoughtful points and whatnot. im glad we're not all a stupid bunch.

and again, i hope the government stays out of way when it comes to women and their rights.

[b-grrrlie]

Overnight this thread has gotten so big I haven't got time to read all the comments so this might have been posted already, but it's worth repeating:
A Statement From Planned Parenthood Federation of America:

Abortion is never an easy decision, but women have been making that choice for thousands of years, for many good reasons. Whenever a society has sought to outlaw abortions, it has only driven them into back alleys where they became dangerous, expensive, and humiliating. Amazingly, this was the case in the United States until 1973, when abortion was legalized nationwide.

Thousands of American women died and thousands more were maimed before abortion was legal. For this reason and others, women and men fought for and achieved women's legal right to make their own decisions about abortion.

However, there are people in our society who still won't accept this. Some argue that even victims of rape or incest should be forced to bear the child. And now, having failed to convince the public or the lawmakers, certain of these people have become violent extremists, engaging in a campaign of intimidation and terror aimed at women seeking abortions and health professionals who work at family planning clinics.

Some say these acts will stop abortions, but that is ridiculous. When the smoke clears, the same urgent reasons will exist for safe, legal abortions as have always existed. No nation committed to individual liberty could seriously consider returning to the days of back-alley abortions; to the revolting specter of a government forcing women to bear children against their will. Still, amid such attacks, it is worthwhile to repeat a few of the reasons why our society trusts each woman to make the abortion decision herself.


1. Laws against abortion kill women.
To prohibit abortions does not stop them. When women feel it is absolutely necessary, they will choose to have abortions, even in secret, without medical care, in dangerous circumstances. In the two decades before abortion was legal in the U.S., it's been estimated that nearly a million women per year sought out illegal abortions. Thousands died. Tens of thousands were mutilated. All were forced to behave as if they were criminals.
2. Legal abortions protect women's health.
Legal abortion not only protects women's lives, it also protects their health. For tens of thousands of women with heart disease, kidney disease, severe hypertension, sickle-cell anemia and severe diabetes, and other illnesses that can be life-threatening, the availability of legal abortion has helped avert serious medical complications that could have resulted from childbirth. Before legal abortion, such women's choices were limited to dangerous illegal abortion or dangerous childbirth.

3. A woman is more than a fetus.
There's an argument these days that a fetus is a "person" that is "indistinguishable from the rest of us" and that it deserves rights equal to women's. On this question there is a tremendous spectrum of religious, philosophical, scientific, and medical opinion. It's been argued for centuries. Fortunately, our society has recognized that each woman must be able to make this decision, based on her own conscience. To impose
a law defining a fetus as a "person," granting it rights equal to or superior to a woman's ³ a thinking, feeling, conscious human being ³ is arrogant and absurd. It only serves to diminish women.

4. Being a mother is just one option for women.
Many hard battles have been fought to win political and economic equality for women. These gains will not be worth much if reproductive choice is denied. To be able to choose a safe, legal abortion makes many other options possible. Otherwise an accident or a rape can end a woman's economic and personal freedom.

5. Outlawing abortion is discriminatory.
Anti-abortion laws discriminate against low-income women, who are driven to dangerous self-induced or back-alley abortions. That is all they can afford. But the rich can travel wherever necessary to obtain a safe abortion.

6. Compulsory pregnancy laws are incompatible with a free society.
If there is any matter which is personal and private, then pregnancy is it. There can be no more extreme invasion of privacy than requiring a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. If government is permitted to compel a woman to bear a child, where will government stop? The concept is morally repugnant. It violates traditional American ideas of individual rights and freedoms.

7. Outlaw abortion, and more children will bear children.
Forty percent of 14-year-old girls will become pregnant before they turn 20. This could happen to your daughter or someone else close to you. Here are the critical questions: Should the penalty for lack of knowledge or even for a moment's carelessness be enforced pregnancy and childrearing? Or dangerous illegal abortion? Should we consign a teenager to a life sentence of joblessness, hopelessness, and dependency?

8. "Every child a wanted child."
If women are forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term, the result is unwanted children. Everyone knows they are among society's most tragic cases, often uncared-for, unloved, brutalized, and abandoned. When they grow up, these children are often seriously disadvantaged, and sometimes inclined toward brutal behavior to others. This is not good for children, for families, or for the country. Children need love and families who want and will care for them.

9. Choice is good for families.
Even when precautions are taken, accidents can and do happen. For some families, this is not a problem.
But for others, such an event can be catastrophic. An unintended pregnancy can increase tensions, disrupt stability, and push people below the line of economic survival. Family planning is the answer. All options must be open. At the most basic level, the abortion issue is not really about abortion. It is about the value of women in society. Should women make their own decisions about family, career, and how to live their lives? Or should government do that for them? Do women have the option of deciding when or whether to have children? Or is that a government decision?



The anti-abortion leaders really have a larger purpose. They oppose most ideas and programs which can help women achieve equality and freedom. They also oppose programs which protect the health and well-being of women and their children.
Anti-abortion leaders claim to act "in defense of life." If so, why have they worked to destroy programs which serve life, including prenatal care and nutrition programs for dependent pregnant women? Is this respect for life?

Anti-abortion leaders also say they are trying to save children, but they have fought against health and nutrition programs for children once they are born. The anti-abortion groups seem to believe life begins at conception, but it ends at birth. Is this respect for life?

Then there are programs which diminish the number of unwanted pregnancies before they occur: family planning counseling, sex education, and contraception for those who wish it. Anti-abortion leaders oppose those too. And clinics providing such services have been bombed and people have been killed. Is this respect for life?

Such stances reveal the ultimate cynicism of the compulsory pregnancy movement. "Life" is not what they're fighting for. What they want is a return to the days when a woman had few choices in controlling her future. They think that the abortion option gives too much freedom. That even contraception is too liberating. That women cannot be trusted to make their own decisions.

Americans today don't accept that. Women can now select their own paths in society, including when and whether to have children. Family planning, contraception, and, if need be, legal abortion are critical to sustaining women's freedom. There is no going back.

If you agree with this, you can help. Circulate this statement among your friends, and support our work by contacting Planned Parenthood in your area. Thank you.

Revised version March 1989.

[Auton]

y'know, it's too bad we couldnt have a serious, non-childish discussion on abortion. although, i suppose that would never happen, seeing how both sides act completely undignified sometimes.

[g-mile7]

just saw this:

what?

don't make this into another one of your stupid personal battles with me. this is a serious issue.




then maybe he should find someone else to knock up.


thats why I made that comment by the way....was trying to present the otherside and got a childish answer....but other then I saw alot of good points in here Auton

[Auton]

i say this thread is a bit of a waste. just like every other discussion on the subject, it mostly comprises of childish name calling. i dont think the one a-z started in the political forum ended up that bad though, but i havent checked it in a while

[g-mile7]

i say this thread is a bit of a waste. just like every other discussion on the subject, it mostly comprises of childish name calling. i dont think the one a-z started in the political forum ended up that bad though, but i havent checked it in a while

it was good I didn't really any of thisyou speak on at least the last couple pages....when you deal with closed minded people; however, that is usually the end result.

[Auton]

how is this bad? atleast you wouldnt be killing an innocent child cause your selfish and dont want one. now if you had a baby you didnt want you could just give it up for adoption.

I dont even want to get into this argument because the people arguing the pro-life side are generally religious nutjobs that like forcing their fairweather morality on others.

or just women-haters.

examples. i cant be bothered to look for more though.

[zorra_chiflada]

uh huh

[g-mile7]

examples. i cant be bothered to look for more though.



didn't even notice any of that...

[fucktopgirl]

I personally think that this law is stupid.IT kinda entrave the liberty of a human.BUt one thing for shure,people abuse abortions,so they should educate the population instead and allow maybe one abortion for a life time.MAke a effort for "conscentisating"(i know there is a grammar mistake there) the people instead of repressing the right of women choice.

I dunno,but i think this is really a law made by a fascism state.
That just show the lack of flexibility and a regression in time instead of a step forward.

[Auton]

uh huh

yup.

what? like that isn't childish?

[g-mile7]

I personally think that this law is stupid.IT kinda entrave the liberty of a human.BUt one thing for shure,people abuse abortions,so they should educate the population instead and allow maybe one abortion for a life time.MAke a effort for "conscentisating"(i know there is a grammar mistake there) the people instead of repressing the right of women choice.

I dunno,but i think this is really a law made by a fascism state.
That just show the lack of flexibility and a regression in time instead of a step forward.


People forget that it's against Federal Law to ban abortion so evenutally it should be overturn even with the two new Justices so saids all the analysts'.

[cosmo105]

No really, equality is your strong point.
i said that because you said this...it came across as a personal attack...which is irrelevant anyway. in the name of tupac, leave me alone.

[g-mile7]

i said that because you said this...it came across as a personal attack...which is irrelevant anyway. in the name of tupac, leave me alone.

Love how you ignored the fact that you said this way before I said anything towards you:


then maybe he should find someone else to knock up.


compltely brushing off the point I made with a childish answer, but whatever that's you nobody coming at you(I stayed on topic mind you) or even attacking you (you take worst sarcasm from Qdrop for god sake). Slow down and chill no need for that bolded plea.

[zorra_chiflada]

yup.

what? like that isn't childish?

so you think that militant pro-lifers, holding placards with pictures of fetuses and pipe bombing family planning centres are of sound mind and respectful of women?

[cosmo105]

so you think that militant pro-lifers, holding placards with pictures of fetuses and pipe bombing family planning centres are of sound mind and respectful of women?
he's not siding with them, zorra. he's just saying that the argument against them as people isn't sound. which is a good point.

it's ok though, auton can't read

[g-mile7]

so you think that militant pro-lifers, holding placards with pictures of fetuses and pipe bombing family planning centres are of sound mind and respectful of women?



I made a post bout this...distribuing it is, but effective, postive or negative (and to me it's negative) it's effective.

[Auton]

so you think that militant pro-lifers, holding placards with pictures of fetuses and pipe bombing family planning centres are of sound mind and respectful of women?

oh, i didn't know that all pro-lifers pipe bomb family planning centers and hold pictures of dead fetuses. excuse my ignorance.

and you get mad when people stereotype pro-choicers as baby killers?

you're as bad as they are.

[DandyFop]

zorra should have done that "10 pages" thread about abortion, would have gone faster.

[GetYourWarOn]

this is a bad situation.

[zorra_chiflada]

i'm not even going to bother. you're obviously trying to pick a fight with me.

[GetYourWarOn]

i'm not even going to bother. you're obviously trying to pick a fight with me.

that slut. pfffffff.

[GetYourWarOn]

Ambulance ride to the hospital after you've been brutally raped: $500

Years worth of therapy to deal with the trauma: $10,000

Custody battle with your rapist after he's released from prison and wants to see "his kid": priceless

[Auton]

no, im trying to illustrate the point that regardless what side you're on, the moment you resort to hateful stereotypes your arguments become null and void, making no better than your mud-slinging opponent.

[zorra_chiflada]

out of everyone else who made impassioned responses regarding abortion you pick on me?

[g-mile7]

out of everyone else who made impassioned responses regarding abortion you pick on me?


this is a serious question and I hope you view it as such, but who else has done the impassioned response (at least who hasn't been joking)?I am being serious not trying to pick on nothing.

[Auton]

no, you're the only one who replied. why would i pick a fight with you? i like you. i chose three of what i thought were spiteful and unfair quotes, and you replied. oh well.

[zorra_chiflada]

am i the only one with no sympathy? it's the female's choice to either be protected, or not. if women are too lazy, or dumb enough to not care, why should they get the easy way out?


the only way i see abortion being justified, is if the woman was raped, and maybe that morning after pill. there could be other circumstances i'm not aware of, and i'm sure i'll be enlightened by someone.

[Auton]

yup, that's pure ignorance right there.

[Medellia]

the only way i see abortion being justified, is if the woman was raped, and maybe that morning after pill. there could be other circumstances i'm not aware of, and i'm sure i'll be enlightened by someone.
Women who report rape immediately usually are given the morning after pill. If they still get pregnant, then what? Also, what about the women who are raped and are too ashamed and scared to say anything? They should go through pregnancy and childbirth because they were too terrified to go to the cops?

[cosmo105]

honestly, cjm's post just shows that he doesn't understand it from a woman's perspective. i doubt anyone can expect him to. but it really boils down to whether or not the government should have the right to make a moral deicision on it. whether or not you think something is right or wrong doesn't factor into a person's right to do it.

[g-mile7]

honestly, cjm's post just shows that he doesn't understand it from a woman's perspective. i doubt anyone can expect him to. but it really boils down to whether or not the government should have the right to make a moral deicision on it. whether or not you think something is right or wrong doesn't factor into a person's right to do it.


I think it's wrong for the goverment to intefere. I also think it's wrong for the mother to make the decision if the father is not a bum, rapist, and could be a good father. 9 months is long but 18 years of taking care of another life is just as hard if not more. I don't agree with the "fuck the dad, it's my decsion my body" when the child is a product of BOTH. That is all take it or leave it I know what most would do any way since they don't see the guy's perspective (the good guy).