hillary: it's gotta be over

[saz]

how far do you think she's going to go? all the way to the convention? we know how ambitious and career-driven she is. she may win texas, but who knows. obama is currently in the process of handing her (and bill's) ass to her. ten in a row.

and what's funny is that the clinton's were touting experience, their poise, and just how much all of this matters. but meanwhile, they've been off script so much, issuing rove-like attacks and attack ads, crying, bringing up mlk/lbj etc, and digging a colossal hole for themselves. and bill just doesn't know when to go away. bush sr. knew that after dubya's loss in new hampshire in '00 that he had to disappear.

meanwhile, it is obama who has been exerting poise, he's never lost his cool or had any serious gaffes yet.

do you think bill screwed it up for her? or that obama's dominance was inevitable?

and once she accepts reality, do you really think she'll want to remain a senator? do you think she'd give up her seat to take a cabinet position, or do you think that there's no way she'd take a cabinet post in an obama administration and go back to the senate.

all i know is that the clinton household isn't going to be a pretty place.

[taquitos]

over? perhaps you missed this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FvyGydc8no&eurl=http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/)

[abcdefz]

I can't believe someone has died (http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8335755) for Hillary's campaign now.

[Bob]

dallas, huh...

[abcdefz]

over? perhaps you missed this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FvyGydc8no&eurl=http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/)



...guess not too much money was going toward choreography, eh?

What -- Rick Astley was too busy?

[NoFenders]

I am in no way a supporter of Hillary (or Obama), but she certainly made some head way last night. I'd say she'll be picking up speed sooner than you think sazi.

:cool:

[King PSYZ]

yes, getting booed is some head of steam and when your only ovation comes from a statement basically praising your opponent... well watch out White House...:rolleyes:

[NoFenders]

You guys are funny as hell. I was only saying that she did better in the debate Thurs night than Obama. It certainly made a few people I know reconsider. That all.
:cool:

[Justin]

Any confidence that I had in Hillary ended eruptly when she was caught on camera crying when she was answering questions of undecided voters (i believe in cn)

Im sorry, I dont want my president ever crying and getting emotional in public. It's a sign of weakness and thats only fuel for our enemies.

suck it up woman!

[Bob]

lol

[NoFenders]

Any confidence that I had in Hillary ended eruptly when she was caught on camera crying when she was answering questions of undecided voters (i believe in cn)

Im sorry, I dont want my president ever crying and getting emotional in public. It's a sign of weakness and thats only fuel for our enemies.

suck it up woman!

Totally agree. (y)

:cool:

[abcdefz]

Personally, I think that what our country needs most right now is a real good cry.

[saz]

george w. bush has cried quite a few times during his terms in office.

[abcdefz]

H.W. cries in public when he talks about Jeb's presidential chances being fucked.

He was the one the family expected big things from.

[The Notorious LOL]

Any confidence that I had in Hillary ended eruptly when she was caught on camera crying when she was answering questions of undecided voters (i believe in cn)

Im sorry, I dont want my president ever crying and getting emotional in public. It's a sign of weakness and thats only fuel for our enemies.

suck it up woman!

Haha! The best part is you're serious!


Im pretty sure our 'enemies' dont really need any more fuel. Theres enough from the past 50 years to last them at least a few dozen more decades.

[abcdefz]

The fact that Hillary's campaign leaked the Kenya photo (http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20080225_obama_clinton_camps_clash_over_obama_phot o_leak/) is a sign of true desperation.

[yeahwho]

The fact that Hillary's campaign leaked the Kenya photo (http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20080225_obama_clinton_camps_clash_over_obama_phot o_leak/) is a sign of true desperation.

Pointing out that Obama is African American? It's sort of bizarre isn't it? My neighbors are from Nigeria and have one of the most solid community volunteering records in the greater Seattle area. They wear traditional Nigerian clothing 90% of the time. I just don't get it. What is the point other than racism or trying to mock Kenyan life? What the fuck is up with that?


I'm baffled by these attempts by the Clinton campaign. I think they are very petty people. She can take her war vote and agenda of entitlement home very soon. Perhaps volunteer as Gore has to move our Country forward.

This stuff is embarassing.

[taquitos]

it that in fact, a fact?

[abcdefz]

Yeah.


"Obama campaign manager David Plouffe immediately accused Clinton's campaign of "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering
we've seen from either party in this election".

Obama's foreign policy adviser, Susan Rice, said the circulation of the photograph was divisive and suggests "that the customs
and cultures of other parts of the world are worthy of ridicule or condemnation".

Clinton campaign manager Maggie Williams said the Obama campaign's reaction was inflaming passions and distracting voters.

"Enough," Williams said in a statement.

"If Barack Obama's campaign wants to suggest that a photo of him wearing traditional Somali clothing is divisive, they should be
ashamed. Hillary Clinton has worn the traditional clothing of countries she has visited and had those photos published widely.

"This is nothing more than an obvious and transparent attempt to distract from the serious issues confronting our country today
and to attempt to create the very divisions they claim to decry."




...so Clinton's campaign gets to have it both ways, apparently.

[yeahwho]

Yeah.


"Obama campaign manager David Plouffe immediately accused Clinton's campaign of "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering
we've seen from either party in this election".

Obama's foreign policy adviser, Susan Rice, said the circulation of the photograph was divisive and suggests "that the customs
and cultures of other parts of the world are worthy of ridicule or condemnation".

Clinton campaign manager Maggie Williams said the Obama campaign's reaction was inflaming passions and distracting voters.

"Enough," Williams said in a statement.

"If Barack Obama's campaign wants to suggest that a photo of him wearing traditional Somali clothing is divisive, they should be
ashamed. Hillary Clinton has worn the traditional clothing of countries she has visited and had those photos published widely.

"This is nothing more than an obvious and transparent attempt to distract from the serious issues confronting our country today
and to attempt to create the very divisions they claim to decry."




...so Clinton's campaign gets to have it both ways, apparently.

You know what? I'm ashamed of her and I hope the Black community comes out strong on this attack. It's unacceptable.

[alien autopsy]

i keep hearing about this on the tele. they keep saying that it was an attempt by the clinton campaign to confuse the public into thinking obama is a muslim.

i heard this same quote verbatim on three different occasions by three different people- something to the affect that the clinton campaign is playing on the commonly held belief that obama is a muslim.


FIRST- who cares if he was a muslim. this is most upsetting to me. the idea that people might not vote for someone if they are a muslim is disgusting, although i was not suprised to hear this. not all muslims attack and blow up things. most do not. many muslims are great people with a beautiful culture and history.

SECOND-i was totally unaware that people actually thought he was a muslim, i sure dont know anyone who does.

[yeahwho]

Another problem here is the head dress and outfit has nothing to do with religion, Kenya (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ke.html) is predominately Christian (Protestant 45%, Roman Catholic 33%, Muslim 10%, indigenous beliefs 10%, other 2% ) and Hillary Clinton is actually unable to ever lead with this latest major political mistake. What a loser. She should honestly apologize ASAP.

That is so fucked up I'm perplexed. I never took her to be so anti-diversity. She is ruining her own record. Bizarre, either Obama has a mole in her organization or she is completely off the meds. This is 2008, she needs to apologize. Totally repugnant.

[abcdefz]

You might be combining stories.

A few months back, some of her staff admitted to forwarding e-mail rumors claiming that he's Muslim.

So I think, playing on American ignorance, circulating this photo is a way to "remind" us of his "foreign-ness."

I think.

[yeahwho]

You might be combining stories.

A few months back, some of her staff admitted to forwarding e-mail rumors claiming that he's Muslim.

So I think, playing on American ignorance, circulating this photo is a way to "remind" us of his "foreign-ness."

I think.

I'm not sure what she's trying to prove. It's bad form. Probably get fired in Washington State as a Senator for trying to discount or mock any style of religious belief and/or lifestyle. Circulating the photo serves what purpose? I like the picture myself. It seems ridiculous. She seems ridiculous. Tonight I'll watch the final scheduled debate between the two only to try and understand why she is on such a bizarre line of attack.

[taquitos]

I still don't see how we know these Clinton staffers circulated the picture.
I'm a fan of Obama, but this seems like a pretty low move to just make assumptions about.

[yeahwho]

My dental floss is all tied in knots for no reason, this is just a Drudge report. He has pretty much established himself as a democrat hater and fact inventor. Clinton campaign denies this and Obama campaign concurs.

Still the photo is more flattering than sweatshop tennis shoes or pantsuits.

Onto bigger and funnier things, ever actually read McCains website? I love his environmental policy ideas (http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/65bd0fbe-737b-4851-a7e7-d9a37cb278db.htm).... I haven't the slightest clue what they are but the writing is hilarious. How to say nothing at all and end it up by say this....

By addressing this problem responsibly, John McCain believes we can meet our obligation to be proper caretakers of creation, in a manner of which we can be proud - by protecting our country, strengthening our economy, and addressing the challenges of our time, rather than leaving a much worse problem for our children.

Fuck. What a load.

[NoFenders]

yeahwho, there's really nothing different in that line, than what Obamam says. :cool:

[abcdefz]

My dental floss is all tied in knots for no reason, this is just a Drudge report.



No -- the picture was first sent to Drudge. That's how the Clinton campaign leaked it. The story is in all kinds of legitimate outlets (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=obama+kenya+photo+clinton&btnG=Google+Search) now.

[yeahwho]

yeahwho, there's really nothing different in that line, than what Obamam says. :cool:

Oh there's a few differences, why don't you start up your McCain for Prez thread and we'll get into it.

He has offered common sense approaches to limit carbon emissions by harnessing market forces that will bring advanced technologies, such as nuclear energy, to the market faster, reduce our dependence on foreign supplies of energy, and see to it that America leads in a way that ensures all nations do their rightful share.

The children will really enjoy that forward thinking.

[yeahwho]

No -- the picture was first sent to Drudge. That's how the Clinton campaign leaked it. The story is in all kinds of legitimate outlets (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=obama+kenya+photo+clinton&btnG=Google+Search) now.
You know what bothers me the most is this whole denial by Hillary and her staffers reminds me of something. The Clinton White House kept the media at bay and actually lied to the press (who report to us, citizens/voters) on multiple counts. She has done nothing to deny this other than say the picture is public domain.

Soooooo, I'm just generally upset with her. She is fucked up. Not going to flat out deny nor start to realize closure on the issue. Just use it as a lead in to her policy and campaign theme of experience and strength. Experience and strength in misleading divisive politics. She is really hitting bottom.

[abcdefz]

You know what bothers me the most is this whole denial by Hillary and her staffers reminds me of something. The Clinton White House kept the media at bay and actually lied to the press (who report to us, citizens/voters) on multiple counts. She has done nothing to deny this other than say the picture is public domain.

Soooooo, I'm just generally upset with her. She is fucked up. Not going to flat out deny nor start to realize closure on the issue. Just use it as a lead in to her policy and campaign theme of experience and strength. Experience and strength in misleading divisive politics. She is really hitting bottom.



The Clintons are fucking hypocrites, period.

[NoFenders]

How will Obama help the American people become better people for themselves??? It seems to me, after reading and listening to some reports, that all he's doing is making the gov bigger. I don't need him to tie my shoe. It will be worse for us as a whole. I never got any free lunch, and I don't think I deserve one. I don't get why so many others think they do. OUr country is hopeless in his opinion, but he sells the idea of hope. I find hard to believe that so many people can still be taken by a snake oil salesman.

:cool:

[abcdefz]

Obviously, you're not a golfer.

[saz]

How will Obama help the American people become better people for themselves??? It seems to me, after reading and listening to some reports, that all he's doing is making the gov bigger. I don't need him to tie my shoe. It will be worse for us as a whole. I never got any free lunch, and I don't think I deserve one. I don't get why so many others think they do. OUr country is hopeless in his opinion, but he sells the idea of hope. I find hard to believe that so many people can still be taken by a snake oil salesman.

:cool:


ditto those who voted for george w. bush twice, whose administration also tripled the size of the federal government with the unecessary department of homeland security, while passing very instrusive legislation such as the patriot act, and approving illegal wiretapping of millions of american's phone calls and also reading their email and other electronic communications.

[NoFenders]

So, where are we really going then??? Are you saying that there really is no difference??

Also, I have no problem making gov bigger where it protects the citizens. Taping calls and reading email is not a problem for me. I'm not doing anything or saying anything that would put me in Fed prison. If they want hear me talk about racing and Saturday night, have at it.
:cool:

[NoFenders]

Obviously, you're not a golfer.

No, I never had the patience for that. They do have some nice shirts though.
:cool:

[yeahwho]

So, where are we really going then??? Are you saying that there really is no difference??

Also, I have no problem making gov bigger where it protects the citizens. Taping calls and reading email is not a problem for me. I'm not doing anything or saying anything that would put me in Fed prison. If they want hear me talk about racing and Saturday night, have at it.
:cool:

I am completely sympathetic to your sentiment. I smoke cigars on occasion and the only place legal outside of my own yard is the sovereign nation of tribal casino's on the whole fucking west coast. Even if you own a smoke shop people cannot smoke inside of it or 25' from the front door. This is good for who? The non-smokers who frequent the smoke shop?

Anyway the lunacy of regulating every move and legal desicion adults make drives me crazy. Especially my right to privacy.

Bush has no fiscal sense whatsoever, he has screwed the pooch as far as national debt (http://zfacts.com/p/318.html) and the bills are just starting to come in. So if your worried about taxes think a little bit about who's doing the spending. I can point out a few whoppers the republicans have indulged in the past 8 years, especially north of me in Alaska.

[NoFenders]

I am completely sympathetic to your sentiment. I smoke cigars on occasion and the only place legal outside of my own yard is the sovereign nation of tribal casino's on the whole fucking west coast. Even if you own a smoke shop people cannot smoke inside of it or 25' from the front door. This is good for who? The non-smokers who frequent the smoke shop?

Anyway the lunacy of regulating every move and legal desicion adults make drives me crazy. Especially my right to privacy.



We can't smoke in public places here in IL either. The law was passed to help the employees. They tried passing it by saying they were helping the patrons, but it flopped. So they changed it to employees. It's all a joke. You're right though, regulating a decision made by a grown adult in America is pathetic. So, I can see why you'd feel privacy to be an issue. It's just not for me. I'm not that private of a guy I guess.

As far as finance goes, they'll all screw us one way or another. It's in thier nature. Republican, Democrat, it makes no differnece. They have to pay people back. Especially the ones who put them there. Unfortunately, that's not the voters.

Either way you look at it, politicians are scum. Every one of'em.

:cool:

[yeahwho]

Either way you look at it, politicians are scum. Every one of'em.

:cool:

I've posted this before and will again because I feel nobody has nailed Americas economic woes as well as Nixon's Secretary of Commerce, Peter George Peterson has in his excellent book, "Running on Empty (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B00E2D61F3CF931A2575BC0A9629C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print)".

Here are a few quick excerpts,

How we reached this pass can be stated simply: Republicans undertax, while Democrats overspend. For decades, Mr. Peterson writes, Democrats ''labored patiently to purge America of its traditional aversion to deficits,'' bribing voters with jobs and social-service programs that the country could not afford. Starting with the Emergency Recovery Tax Act of 1981, though, Republicans have learned that tax cuts and write-offs can be used as bribes in exactly the same way. Dependent on deficit spending, both parties have blown through every institutional constraint erected against reckless tax cuts and benefit expansions, from the Gramm-Rudman deficit ceilings of the 1980's to the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990. And they have blown the Social Security-tax surpluses meant to offset predictable future shortfalls.

While Mr. Peterson blames both parties for conniving against fiscal common sense, he puts the present administration in a class of its own. George W. Bush has discarded traditional Republican qualms against big government, replacing the old Democratic model of tax-and-spend with his own model of borrow-and-spend. Thanks to three unaffordable tax cuts and an unfinanced Medicare drug benefit that will eventually cost $2 trillion a decade, Mr. Peterson writes, ''this administration and the Republican Congress have presided over the biggest, most reckless deterioration of America's finances in history.'

Plus this nugget,

Mr. Peterson has laid out his level-headed argument at book length several times now. Why has it continued to be ignored? Maybe Americans have tacitly given up on the idea that large, New Deal-style entitlement programs can work over the long term -- whether because such programs inevitably get corrupted by politics and bureaucracy, or because even a well-managed welfare state is a competitive albatross in an age of globalization. Mr. Peterson himself notes that nine-tenths of baby boomers think ''government has made financial promises to [their] generation that it will not be able to keep.'' The guarantee of a secure retirement is already being rescinded in the minds of the citizenry, if not yet in the statute books.

But Mr. Peterson also entertains a darker possibility: that ''our national leaders are providing the American people with precisely what they want.'' Debt, he notes, is particularly alluring in periods of partisan intransigence. If the two sides cannot compromise on priorities, each can take what it wants while dumping the bill on future generations. Americans used to understand this temptation and flee it. Thomas Jefferson warned: ''To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude.''

So it may be that some terrible change has come over the national psychology that admits to only two diagnoses. Either the complexity of government has outrun the capacity of a democratic public to understand it, or that public, understanding well the options Jefferson put before it, has chosen servitude.

[NoFenders]

I think just about every President to date has gone against Thomas Jefferson's wishes in one way or another. Might be a book worth reading though.

:cool:

[wrongwayandugg]

I don't think we've heard the last from Hillary. She has more pull than we are lead to believe.