Romney - the new Palin

[kaiser soze]

ah what a gift - this guy is dirty, downright spoiled, and completely disconnected.

wonder if he'll get his ass in a bunch over his lies about his tenure at Bain

investing in abortion medical waste companies must sound good to pro-lifers

called people freeloaders but yet - corporate welfare is something he is quite comfortable with

republicans and conservatives are quite quiet around these parts - guess they too know this guy sucks ass

[yeahwho]

lol, nice to see you're still around kaiser soze.

Romney celebrates the greed culture. It's his bag. Get more and give less.

“My campaign is about helping the people who need help.” This is why I support more tax cuts for the wealthy.

[Burnout18]

No, no, no. There will never be anyone as unprepared, dumb and not ready for prime time as Sarah palin.

[valvano]

Romney celebrates the greed culture. It's his bag. Get more and give less.


you mean like how in 2011 Joe Biden contributed far less of hids income than Obama and Romney who both, by the way, were in the same neighborhood as far as % of income to charitable giving?

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/04/16/joe-bidens-charitable-contributions-is-he-paying-his-fair-share/

per ABC news, he has given on average only $396/year to charity per tax records:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5791846&page=1#.UACQzUrWYnw

of course, lots of people give to charity without reporting it on their taxes. after all, chartity and outreach is a private matter. but if you liberals are going to start this arguement, prepare to defend your own kind.

[valvano]

Oh, and here's some mission work Bush 43 just did over in Africa. Wonder why it was missed by the main stream media?

http://www.voanews.com/content/bush-africa-cancer-detection/1364621.html

[yeahwho]

of course, lots of people give to charity without reporting it on their taxes. after all, chartity and outreach is a private matter. but if you liberals are going to start this arguement, prepare to defend your own kind.

I not even sure why you are going on about individual charitable contributions of political figures and candidates. It has nothing to do with the fact Romney doesn't want to tax wealthy Americans.

I don't think anybody that has posted here was questioning or even remotely concerned about a charity contest. If you are so inclined go ahead and put a list of those contributions and who donated them by political party.

It can be your deal. This thread is about how Romney reminds Kaiser of Sarah Palin.

[valvano]

I not even sure why you are going on about individual charitable contributions of political figures and candidates. It has nothing to do with the fact Romney doesn't want to tax wealthy Americans.

I don't think anybody that has posted here was questioning or even remotely concerned about a charity contest. If you are so inclined go ahead and put a list of those contributions and who donated them by political party.

It can be your deal. This thread is about how Romney reminds Kaiser of Sarah Palin.

you are the dumbass making the "get more give less" comment.

and taxing wealthy americans...how about we start taxing the 40 something percent who arent paying any fed income taxes right now. maybe if they paid taxes, they'd be more concerned with our massively bloated government and how much it wastes the federal income it already receives. with no skin in the game though, they can just sit back and smooch off those of us who do pay fed income taxes.

Obama had 2 years of Dem controlled house and senate, why didnt he raise taxes then?

The govt needs to get its own financial house in order before asking for an additional dime from any taxpayer, no matter their income level.

[yeahwho]

you are the dumbass making the "get more give less" comment.


ouch.

[BBboy20]

how about we start taxing the 40 something percent who arent paying any fed income taxes right now.How about we try out "trickle-down taxing" where we tax the 1% first accordingly and then make our way towards that 40% since, you know, you generally go after those who will hurt the least?

you are the dumbass making the "get more give less" comment.You sure you're not an corporatist puppet?

[valvano]

How about we try out "trickle-down taxing" where we tax the 1% first accordingly and then make our way towards that 40% since, you know, you generally go after those who will hurt the least?

You sure you're not an corporatist puppet?

arent we talking about individual earners here? what do corporations have to do with this. but if you are going to call me a corporatist puppet, whatever that is, then you must be an apologist for the moochers, the leechers, those who choose to sit on their ass and wait for others to solve their problems, and other non-producers who are bringing down our country.

oh, and what is taxing people "accordingly"? i like how the moochers of society want to tell those who are actually productiveand covering the largest burdens of the tax rolls tell that they arent paying enough, while they march up and down the street with their immature "occoupy" movements, looking like a bunch of spoiled brats who never worked for anything they earned...

[yeahwho]

Mr. valvano, the level of nonsense one must go through to see if you are going to contribute to this thread is nauseating. Not once have you mentioned Romney or any of his strategy's to help make this a great Country.

You are all over the map criticizing us and now you've belittled fellow citizens who are "without" as lazy fucks who are hurting real Americans chances of paying fair taxes.

Do you ever just come down to a level that common sense and positivity live? Or are you always in la la land half cocked? I pay taxes, I have a job and I vote.

You talk to me and others on this board in demeaning terms full of vitriol, barking out orders of what we must do.

I have no choice left but to believe you think, Romney is the new Palin!

[valvano]

Mr. valvano, the level of nonsense one must go through to see if you are going to contribute to this thread is nauseating. Not once have you mentioned Romney or any of his strategy's to help make this a great Country.

You are all over the map criticizing us and now you've belittled fellow citizens who are "without" as lazy fucks who are hurting real Americans chances of paying fair taxes.

Do you ever just come down to a level that common sense and positivity live? Or are you always in la la land half cocked? I pay taxes, I have a job and I vote.

You talk to me and others on this board in demeaning terms full of vitriol, barking out orders of what we must do.

I have no choice left but to believe you think, Romney is the new Palin!


instead of questioning what romney would do, why dont you let me know what obama has done in his 3 plus years in office? keep in mind 2 of those years he and the dems controlled the white house, the house, and the senate? oh, and the blame everything on bush excuse doesnt jive. bush left a nice big pile of shit, no doubt. but obama took that shit and has turned it into massive diarhea.

obamacare...nothing more to say.

he didnt get the unions their card check vote.

the deficit and deficit spending has exploded under his watch.

his multi billion dollar stimulus was to get employment down to 5% by now...

solyndra anybody?

unemployment rates among blacks, hispanics, and other minorities are higher under obama under his watch since taking office.

"hope and change" seems like a distant memory. broken promises about open govt, big money interest, he hangs out with wall streeters as he bashes them in public. he's crictical of bain while his top economic policy guy came from bain

the govt is still in the hole thanks to the auto bailouts. i am sorry, thanks to the auto union bailouts.

he is killing the coal industry, one of the few employment opportunities for those who live in the nations coal regions.

welfare rolls and those on food stamps have risen under his watch.

he has made being a dependent upon govt handouts something to be proud of while he bashes those who are financially successful.

participation in the job market is down, those filing for disability are up.

need I go on?

I'd same Romney, Hillary Clinton, or even Mickey Mouse would do a better job in the White House than the current occupant. But what do you expect from a community organizer with no real world work experience. he is just an empty suit who would be completely loss without his teleprompters.

might I suggest that instead of worrying about what romney is doing with his money, you should be worrying about what obama is doing with your money

or are you just bitter that there are people in america who make the decision to take full advantage of the opportunites we have and become sucessfull, both financially and personally, instead of sitting around bitching and whining and complaining about their lot in life but do nothing to improve themselves. its a dog eat dog world and not everybody can be winners. and while we have a social responsibility to those who are less fortunate, keep in mind all the billions and billions the we have spent on social programs and yet we seem to have more "poor and disadvantaged" than ever before. some people need to just take a look in the mirror and maybe re-priortize what they want out of life.

[yeahwho]

The stain of Bain is not washing away. Karl Rove can't clean it and Mitt doesn't quite know how to cop to the truth.

From Forbes magazine

35 Questions Mitt Romney Must Answer About Bain Capital Before The Issue Can Go Away (http://www.forbes.com/sites/tjwalker/2012/07/14/35-questions-mitt-romney-must-answer-about-bain-capital-before-the-issue-can-go-away/4/)

1. Are you contending that an individual can simultaneously be the CEO, president, managing director of a company, and its sole stockholder and somehow be "disassociated" from the company or accurately classified as someone not having "any" formal involvement with a company?

2. You have stated that in "Feb. 1999 I left Bain capital and all management responsibility" and "I had no ongoing activity or involvement." It depends on what the definition of "involvement" is, doesn't it? Clearly you were involved with Bain to the extent that you owned it. Are you defining "involvement" in a uniquely specific way that only means "full-time, active, 60-hours-a-week, hands-on manager?"

3. How exactly are you defining "involvement?"

4. Surely someone from Bain occasionally called you up and asked your opinion about something work related from 1999 to 2002. Wouldn't that qualify as "involvement," if only on a minor level?

5. You earned at least $100,000 as an executive from Bain in 2001 and 2002, separate from investment earnings according to filings with State of Massachusetts. Can you give an example of anyone else you personally know getting a six figure income, not divided or investment return, but actual income, from a company they had nothing to do with?

6. What did you do for this $100,000 salary you earned from Bain in both 2000 and 2001?

7. If you did nothing to earn this salary, did the Bain managers violate their fiduciary duty by paying you a salary for no discernible reason?

8. Are there other companies that pay you six figures a year as earned income, not investment income, for which you have no involvement?

9. In 2002, you are listed as one of two managing members of Bain Capital Investors LLC in its annual report. What does this mean?

10. On the very day after you took over the Winter Olympics, the Boston Herald reported that "Romney said he will stay on as a part-timer with Bain, providing input on investment and key personnel decisions." Do you now contend this was factually inaccurate?

11. Do you have records of having written to the Boston Herald asking them to make a correction on this story?

12. On July 19, 1999, a news release about the resignation of two Bain Capital managing directors describes you as CEO and "currently on a part-time leave of absence to head the Salt Lake City Olympic Committee." Was this wrong?

13. Did you ask for a retraction?

14. Why would Bain say this if you had severed all ties in Feb 1999?

15. Isn't it possible that if Bain had made an investment during 1999 to 2002 that you felt was truly odious, for example ownership of a legal Nevada brothel, that you could have and would have used your authority to veto such a decision?

16. If, in fact, you did not veto any major investment decision during your 1999 though 2002 ownership, doesn't that imply your broad consent of management's decisions?

17. According to the Boston Globe, "In a November 2000 interview with the Globe, Romney's wife, Ann, said he had been forced to lessen, but not end entirely, his involvement with Bain Capital." Did your wife misspeak?

18. Did you correct her?

19. According to the Boston Globe, "Romney also testified that `there were a number of social trips and business trips that brought [him] back to Massachusetts, board meetings' while he was running the Olympics. He added that he remained on the boards of several companies, including the Lifelike Co., in which Bain Capital held a stake until 2001." You testified that while running the Olympics you took a number of business trips to Massachusetts and for board meetings for companies including Lifelike Co. Bain had a stake in this company until 2001. Are you contending that you could attend board meetings for Lifelike Co at the same time Bain Capital had a stake in Lifelike Co and at the same time you owned the stock of Bain Capital, but that somehow your attending a board meeting for a company partially owned by Bain had nothing to do with Bain because you were on the board as Mitt Romney the individual, not as the representative of Bain?

20. If yes to the previous question, do you understand that anyone who did not graduate in the top 5% of his class from Harvard Law School, as you did, may have a hard time understanding this?

21. You seem to be suggesting that once you stepped down from full-time, 7 day a week, 18 hour a day management, that you were no longer "involved." You claim you had "no role whatsoever in the management." Assume for the moment that everyone, even in the Obama campaign concedes that after Feb 1999 you were no longer the 100% full-time, hands-on manager of Bain. Isn't it fair to suggest that an individual could still have a role in managing a company through the occasional phone call, meeting and email, even if they didn't involve monumental decisions, such as hiring and firing?

22. When you demanded an apology from the Obama Campaign you seem to suggest that they have stated that you deserve blame for outsourcing done at Bain from 1999 to 2001 because they stated that you were the full-time active manger of Bain during that time. Can you cite a single ad, press release or statement from the Obama Campaign where they specify that you were the full-time manager of Bain from 1999 to 2001?

23. Every time a reporter asks you "why were you listed by Bain in sec documents as the CEO in 2002″ You respond that everyone knows you were no longer the active manger after Feb. 1999 and that you owed stock in Bain but did not manage anything. That may well be, but that doesn't answer the question as to why Bain listed you as ceo, president and managing director. Why won't you answer a simple question that involves basic facts that are undisputed?

24. Why do SEC documents claim you were Chief Executive Officer, President, and Managing Director of Bain Capital 2000 and 2001 if you were merely the sole owner?

25. Did you sign this SEC document?

26. Is this accurate or not?

27. If you didn't sign it, is someone guilty of lying to the SEC?

28. True or false, it is a felony to lie on SEC filings?

29. When asked "did you attend board meetings for Bain after 1999″ you responded by saying "I did not manage Bain after 1999," or that you didn't attend any meetings involving things like firing people. This seems to suggest the possibility that you did attend Bain meetings in 2000 and 2001 that did not involve hiring or firing people or where you made the final decisions on investments. Is that possible?

30. If not, why not just give a blanket statement that you never attended a single board meeting for Bain after Feb. 1999?

31. If Obama owned slum apartments in Chicago that horribly mistreated poor people and didn't provide them heat or running water, but Obama hired a real estate management firm to manage the building and collect rent, do you think it would be fair to criticize him for being a hypocritical slum lord who showed no compassion for poor people?

32. You seem to stress the word "management" a great deal. You had no role in active "management" of Bain after Feb 1999. You then seem to suggest that the only other role for a person to be involved with a company is as an investor. Isn't there a third role?

33. Couldn't you have been an active adviser or consultant, the way many chairmen of the board are?

34. You are obviously bright, hard working and energetic. Isn't is possible that you put in 60 hours a week on the Olympics but still put in 5 hours a week as an active consultant or adviser by phone, email and the occasional meeting with the full time managers of Bain?

35 In general, don't full-time hired managers often seek the "advice" of absentee owners and then do everything they can to implement that "advice?"

plus of course now this guy is scared, which is good.

lol Fox News Sunday has Karl Rove lashed out at the president and advised him to stop making one of his most explosive allegations: that Romney may be a felon. (http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/karl-rove-obama-romney-felon.php?ref=fpnewsfeed)

[valvano]

i must hand it to you. you have done an excellent job of putting into your own words a defense of obama's economic policies and showcasing all the positives from those policies.

excellent job.

[Dorothy Wood]

Valvano, why don't you explain exactly how Obama has ruined your life and this country IN YOUR OWN WORDS. NOT in talking points.

Personally, I think Romney is shady as fuck. Even if he wasn't, he very clearly wants to craft a nation of Christian yuppies and I'm not down with that.

Here are some facts:

Not everybody can own a small business

Letting people descend into poverty without a safety net threatens every citizen.

Some people just need help, there are places in this country that are neglected and ignored and people don't even know there are opportunities.



Just admit, Valvano, that you want people to die if they can't compete for survival in exactly the way you think is appropriate. You want people to just go away when you don't like how they live. You want cultural cleansing, and that makes you a fascist.

[BBboy20]

arent we talking about individual earners here? what do corporations have to do with this. but if you are going to call me a corporatist puppet, whatever that is, then you must be an apologist for the moochers, the leechers, those who choose to sit on their ass and wait for others to solve their problems, and other non-producers who are bringing down our country.

oh, and what is taxing people "accordingly"? i like how the moochers of society want to tell those who are actually productiveand covering the largest burdens of the tax rolls tell that they arent paying enough, while they march up and down the street with their immature "occoupy" movements, looking like a bunch of spoiled brats who never worked for anything they earned...I think I just lost quite a few IQ points reading this. I shouldn't have tell a fellow adult that generalizations, name calling first, assumptions, and demonizing positive suggestions aren't really good courses of action when the situation counts. You've really revealed yourself to be a waste of everyone's time. Good bye.

[valvano]

Some people just need help, there are places in this country that are neglected and ignored and people don't even know there are opportunities.



you mean like Appalachia US where Obama is killing the only substantial industry that exists, coal?

[kaiser soze]

the only substantial industry?!?!?

I guess boehner did a knock out job creating jobs....or didn't he?

anyways - Rmoney loves Welfare - for he and his goons, for everyone else it's just "free stuff"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-15/romney-s-bain-yielded-private-gains-socialized-losses.html

[valvano]

I guess boehner did a knock out job creating jobs....or didn't he?


Boehner could never propose anything as successful as Obama's stimulus program. It has performed perfectly. Billions and billions spent and our unemployment rate is now down near 5%. So what if our deficit has mushroomed.

Good job President Obama :rolleyes:

[valvano]

the only substantial industry?!?!?

I guess boehner did a knock out job creating jobs....or didn't he?

anyways - Rmoney loves Welfare - for he and his goons, for everyone else it's just "free stuff"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-15/romney-s-bain-yielded-private-gains-socialized-losses.html

^ that's a link from the opinion page ...

[Dorothy Wood]

you mean like Appalachia US where Obama is killing the only substantial industry that exists, coal?

Stop lamenting unsustainable industries. Even people in Appalachia are fighting the coal industry for ruining their land.

You're so selfish and closed minded. Look to the future, stop expecting everything to be the same forever. Coal mining is dangerous and pollutes and destroys natural resources. It's time for something new.

[valvano]

Stop lamenting unsustainable industries. Even people in Appalachia are fighting the coal industry for ruining their land.

You're so selfish and closed minded. Look to the future, stop expecting everything to be the same forever. Coal mining is dangerous and pollutes and destroys natural resources. It's time for something new.

do you feel the same way about the auto bail outs? Detroit expected the auto industry to last forever. Unsustainable union laden contracts. Crappy quality cars. I assume then you too oppose the auto bail outs. Detroit is a poster child for failed big labor, Democrat controlled cities.

or when you say we need something new do you mean like green energy? do you mean companies like Solar Trust of America, Abound Solar, Beacon Power, Solyndra, Ener1, Azure Dynamics, Ecotality, LSP Energy? Know what they have in common? Obama threw them some tax money and they all failed.

So which is it?

[yeahwho]

do you feel the same way about the auto bail outs? Detroit expected the auto industry to last forever. Unsustainable union laden contracts. Crappy quality cars. I assume then you too oppose the auto bail outs. Detroit is a poster child for failed big labor, Democrat controlled cities.

Without that bailout our current economy would be in much more dire straits.

Are you living in a bubble? Bush too supported the auto bailout. It is by all accounts a success, US cars have vastly improved and US workers are still working. Even Mitt Romney is trying to claim it was his idea. (http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000091623)

Wake up, quit trashing your fellow citizens and their craft. Or just go buy a foreign vehicle you hypocrite. you demonstrate 0 logic.


or when you say we need something new do you mean like green energy? do you mean companies like Solar Trust of America, Abound Solar, Beacon Power, Solyndra, Ener1, Azure Dynamics, Ecotality, LSP Energy? Know what they have in common? Obama threw them some tax money and they all failed.

So which is it?

Hey those are non-union companies shouldn't they be kicking ass? Also they seem to be a bunch of fucking hippies how do they expect to make money not supplying the military industrial complex? We should stay the course and give our tax dollars to Exxon.

[valvano]

Without that bailout our current economy would be in much more dire straits.

Are you living in a bubble? Bush too supported the auto bailout. It is by all accounts a success, US cars have vastly improved and US workers are still working. Even Mitt Romney is trying to claim it was his idea. (http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000091623)

Wake up, quit trashing your fellow citizens and their craft. Or just go buy a foreign vehicle you hypocrite. you demonstrate 0 logic.




Hey those are non-union companies shouldn't they be kicking ass? Also they seem to be a bunch of fucking hippies how do they expect to make money not supplying the military industrial complex? We should stay the course and give our tax dollars to Exxon.

I could make the same arguement that if I hadn't taken a shit the morning of nov 13 2009 the economy would have been much more worse

Obama touted 5% unemployment by now. Where is it? Instead he distracts you all from his failed economic policies by throwing out contraception crap and amnesty for illegal aliens. I don't understand how you create jobs by attacking job creators. I would think you would want to raise the impoverished up to the level of the successful not tear down those who are successful in the name of fairness. I guess when your whole presidency is a failure you fall back to class warfare.

[Dorothy Wood]

do you feel the same way about the auto bail outs? Detroit expected the auto industry to last forever. Unsustainable union laden contracts. Crappy quality cars. I assume then you too oppose the auto bail outs. Detroit is a poster child for failed big labor, Democrat controlled cities.

or when you say we need something new do you mean like green energy? do you mean companies like Solar Trust of America, Abound Solar, Beacon Power, Solyndra, Ener1, Azure Dynamics, Ecotality, LSP Energy? Know what they have in common? Obama threw them some tax money and they all failed.

So which is it?

I did not support the bailout, no. I don't support stimulus either. Detroit failed because of circumstance and race relations, not unions.

I do think we need green energy, and the only way green energy companies will succeed is if the conversation changes so everyone's on board and it isn't a political football or a way to cash in.

Yeah, the government sucks. It's a gross game between people who think they're the end all be all of existence and can guide an entire nation with talking points, and people who mean well but can't accomplish anything because their voices are drowned out by assholes who shout louder.

You're part of the problem, Romney is part of the problem. It's pass the buck, duck the question, point the finger...all under the guise of "personal responsibility". What a load of crap....

[Dorothy Wood]

I could make the same arguement that if I hadn't taken a shit the morning of nov 13 2009 the economy would have been much more worse

Obama touted 5% unemployment by now. Where is it? Instead he distracts you all from his failed economic policies by throwing out contraception crap and amnesty for illegal aliens. I don't understand how you create jobs by attacking job creators. I would think you would want to raise the impoverished up to the level of the successful not tear down those who are successful in the name of fairness. I guess when your whole presidency is a failure you fall back to class warfare.


"Job creators" have more money than they have in decades. How much more do they need? And what kind of pussies are they that they can't function without having absolute power?


This is what has happened since I've been alive:
http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms//11-28-11pov-f2.jpg

If the wealthy have made such terrific gains, why aren't we all living well? Why do we still have problems? I thought job creators solved everything?

Or could it be...we ARE all doing better? And people should stop arguing about how we're all on a sinking ship so we can work together and focus on the future? Because you know, business is up where I live. In awful awful Illinoise where everything is so terrible according to you.

Why don't you read this: http://www.businessinsider.com/mitt-romneys-claim-that-shrinking-the-government-will-help-americans-isnt-rational-2012-7

That article basically says that the states known as "Worst for business" actually have most of the high performing businesses based in them. And that the "worst for business" states also have higher quality of life statistics. Hmmm, that's weird!

[valvano]

"Job creators" have more money than they have in decades. How much more do they need?


who are you to say when somebody has earned enough? Did Steve Jobs earn to much for the creation of Apple Computer? Zuckerburg for Facebook? Tom Cruise for acting? The Beasties for their music? What gives you the power to make that determination that another person has earned enough for their work?

You too obviously are bitter that there are some more successfull than you. Instead of being a hater of success why don't you try to emulate so you too can live to your full potential. And then some new punk can come along and tell you that you have more money than you need.

[YoungRemy]

^ that's a link from the opinion page ...

and...? (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/6/curl-hip-hop-legend-mca-passes-on-obama-says-not-a/?page=all#pagebreak)

[Dorothy Wood]

who are you to say when somebody has earned enough? Did Steve Jobs earn to much for the creation of Apple Computer? Zuckerburg for Facebook? Tom Cruise for acting? The Beasties for their music? What gives you the power to make that determination that another person has earned enough for their work?

You too obviously are bitter that there are some more successfull than you. Instead of being a hater of success why don't you try to emulate so you too can live to your full potential. And then some new punk can come along and tell you that you have more money than you need.

I'm an American citizen, and I have a right to speak up when I think the game is rigged.

Steve Jobs created products for everyone to use, not just the super rich. He improved technology products and influenced how the world communicates.

I definitely don't think Zuckerberg deserves billions of dollars for a fluke invention that he built on the backs of other people's ideas, but at least he doesn't seem evil. Yet.

Tom Cruise's line of work creates a lot of jobs and makes people happy.

As far as I can tell, the Beastie Boys give back to humanity and encourage positivity and peace. Yes, they deserve their money, because they have talents that are special.

I have the power to think, to process ideas logically. Opportunities are limited on purpose, backroom deals go down all the time with the super rich. Mitt Romney got paid $100,000 a year when he was "retroactively retired", yet says he wasn't affiliated at all with Bain.

Compensation doesn't always equal work output, that's obvious. And I am bitter about that. Who wouldn't be? But you're mistaken in thinking that I'm jealous of success alone. I'm angry about success with no substance, but I'm proud of people who find success doing amazingly productive things.

And you don't even know me, or what I do or where I'm going. People like you just give me fuel to go above and beyond. One can reach for the stars and still work for a brighter future for everyone. You're the empty loser who wants everything for himself for some reason. Maybe you didn't get enough attention as a kid, or you're short or have a weird dick or something. I really don't know how to explain how you got to be such an asshole.

[yeahwho]

who are you to say when somebody has earned enough? Did Steve Jobs earn to much for the creation of Apple Computer? Zuckerburg for Facebook? Tom Cruise for acting? The Beasties for their music? What gives you the power to make that determination that another person has earned enough for their work?

You too obviously are bitter that there are some more successfull than you. Instead of being a hater of success why don't you try to emulate so you too can live to your full potential. And then some new punk can come along and tell you that you have more money than you need.

The fundamental point people here try to make to you valvano is always missed. None of us are anti-success, we're against the game being rigged.

On a bad trading day, JPMorganChase loses $6 billion (and climbing!); HBSC launders $1 billion or more for drug cartels and scrubs cash for terrorists; a drug company pays a $3 billion fine for pushing dangerous and untested usages; financial firms settle mortage improprieties for $26 billion. The top 100 federal contractors received $276 billion in contractors last year--and paid $25.3 billion in penalties. And the list goes on and on with thousands of stories of corruption including all American companies like Wal-Mart in Mexico.

And the reason we the middle class are pissed is we have to pay the same rate and live in fear of audits while the chosen few work harder and harder to buy candidates and change laws that benefit only them.

Heard this on the Rachel Maddow Show today. America is now being run by 17 billionaires.

The big picture is easy to see, it's the details that trip up most people.

Literally a scorched earth policy that Romney enjoys. Never you valvano. You will never get there. Your job in this game is to blame your fellow citizens and be pissed off all the time.

[valvano]

Heard this on the Rachel Maddow Show today. America is now being run by 17 billionaires.


so you are one of the 87 people who watch that show and admit it? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA :eek::eek:::D HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

[Dorothy Wood]

so you are one of the 87 people who watch that show and admit it? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA :eek::eek:::D HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


Haha, you can't think of an actual rebuttal. So weak.

[yeahwho]

so you are one of the 87 people who watch that show and admit it? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA :eek::eek:::D HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Never watched that show in my life. I heard it on the radio as a snippet to the bigger story that the republican party blocked the "Disclose Act (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/disclose-act-new-donor-transparency-law-blocked-in-senate/2012/07/16/gJQAbm7WpW_blog.html)".

you really don't get it do you. Keep on defending those who are working 24 hours a day to buy this Country.

Maybe the Republican leadership can explain why my $250 political contribution is listed on-line while someone's $1,000,000 to $20,000,000 political contribution must be treated as confidential to protect his/her privacy.

That's hilarious.

[valvano]

Haha, you can't think of an actual rebuttal. So weak.

the fact anybody admits to listening to Rachel Madow and then quoting her disqualifies them from requiring a rebuttal

[valvano]

Its funny so many of the congressional leaders demanding Romney's tax returns refuse to disclose their own returns

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/07/18/156632/most-members-of-congress-keep.html

[yeahwho]

the fact anybody admits to listening to Rachel Madow and then quoting her disqualifies them from requiring a rebuttal

I wish I would of known it was that easy 10 years ago.

[yeahwho]

Its funny so many of the congressional leaders demanding Romney's tax returns refuse to disclose their own returns

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/07/18/156632/most-members-of-congress-keep.html

Congress is asking for me, I want to know. So do millions of other registered voters. When millions of us want to know about a congressional leaders tax return we'll ask them. Do you not have any curiosity about this Mitt Romney?

from another female journalist just for you

Who’s on America’s Side? (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/opinion/dowd-whos-on-americas-side.html?_r=1&hp)
by Maureen Dowd

Americans have been trained to be wary of Swiss bank accounts and tax shelters in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. Guys who have those in the movies are always shady and greedy.

As Nicholas Shaxson writes in Vanity Fair, though Romney left Bain Capital, the private-equity firm he founded, in 1999, he “has continued to receive large payments from it — in early June he revealed more than $2 million in new Bain income. The firm today has at least 138 funds organized in the Cayman Islands, and Romney himself has personal interests in at least 12, worth as much as $30 million, hidden behind controversial confidentiality disclaimers.”

Jack Blum, a Washington lawyer and offshore expert, told Shaxson: “What Romney doesn’t get is that this stuff is weird.”

George Romney set the gold standard by releasing 12 years’ worth of tax returns. But his son’s refusal to release a decent sampling is so suspicious that even some top Republicans have balked.

Whats up with that?

[Burnout18]

I'm an American citizen, and I have a right to speak up when I think the game is rigged.

Steve Jobs created products for everyone to use, not just the super rich. He improved technology products and influenced how the world communicates.

I definitely don't think Zuckerberg deserves billions of dollars for a fluke invention that he built on the backs of other people's ideas, but at least he doesn't seem evil.

I have the power to think, to process ideas logically. Opportunities are limited on purpose, backroom deals go down all the time with the super rich. Mitt Romney got paid $100,000 a year when he was "retroactively retired", yet says he wasn't affiliated at all with Bain.

Compensation doesn't always equal work output, that's obvious. And I am bitter about that. Who wouldn't be? But you're mistaken in thinking that I'm jealous of success alone. I'm angry about success with no substance, but I'm proud of people who find success doing amazingly productive things.

burnout is an asshole.

I try not to be bitter about what other people make. Some hit it big, most don't. I would never be disgusted by someone who is retired or semi retired collecting a salary or bonus... It is compensation for creating or managing such successful organization that it continues to flourish when you are gone. Especially if you hand pick your successors or the company is still following your vision.

I dont think people "deserve" compensation based on how they spend it. Or if one person thinks they are "good" or "evil." if you have the talents or skills to provide a service or good people want/need and you use it correctly, I'm sorry but, said person has earned any compensation.

[Dorothy Wood]

I try not to be bitter about what other people make. Some hit it big, most don't. I would never be disgusted by someone who is retired or semi retired collecting a salary or bonus... It is compensation for creating or managing such successful organization that it continues to flourish when you are gone. Especially if you hand pick your successors or the company is still following your vision.

I dont think people "deserve" compensation based on how they spend it. Or if one person thinks they are "good" or "evil." if you have the talents or skills to provide a service or good people want/need and you use it correctly, I'm sorry but, said person has earned any compensation.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. Romney is claiming he wasn't associated with Bain at all during that time so therefore can't be responsible for the deals that were made. But he built the company and probably hired the people who took over. So he's basically saying he got that money for nothing. It's absurd.

You yourself just said "if you use it correctly", and I'm saying using your skills and talents "correctly" includes being a good citizen.

These are just opinions, I am not against rich people or success. I'm against wealth gained through manipulation and tricks. It's one thing to overvalue something to make a profit. I make $100/hr sometimes, and I definitely don't work that hard, I just have a specialized skill set and that's the price the market will bear. But if I kept pushing it, that would make me a dick. I guess I think a lot of rich people got that rich because they're dicks, who act immorally. And I don't like it and don't think it should be encouraged because it's bad for society.

[Burnout18]

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. Romney is claiming he wasn't associated with Bain at all during that time so therefore can't be responsible for the deals that were made. But he built the company and probably hired the people who took over. So he's basically saying he got that money for nothing. It's absurd.

You yourself just said "if you use it correctly", and I'm saying using your skills and talents "correctly" includes being a good citizen.

These are just opinions, I am not against rich people or success. I'm against wealth gained through manipulation and tricks. It's one thing to overvalue something to make a profit. I make $100/hr sometimes, and I definitely don't work that hard, I just have a specialized skill set and that's the price the market will bear. But if I kept pushing it, that would make me a dick. I guess I think a lot of rich people got that rich because they're dicks, who act immorally. And I don't like it and don't think it should be encouraged because it's bad for society.

Ok we are totally talking about the same thing... at the top level of an organization managers are laying the groundwork for 2-5 years down the road. So if someone sets plans in motion then retires our steps aside, if those plans succeed do they not still deserve credit? Sometimes compensation is part of that credit. So deferred compensation is not absurd and its totally not for "nothing" or no work.

using talents correctly meant to go onto your chosen profession and succeed.... And like not burn out or become a waste of talent. How one person spends their money should have no bearing on how much money they make. That is way to unfair of a judgment because, well, who are we to decide.

[Dorothy Wood]

Ok we are totally talking about the same thing... at the top level of an organization managers are laying the groundwork for 2-5 years down the road. So if someone sets plans in motion then retires our steps aside, if those plans succeed do they not still deserve credit? Sometimes compensation is part of that credit. So deferred compensation is not absurd and its totally not for "nothing" or no work.

using talents correctly meant to go onto your chosen profession and succeed.... And like not burn out or become a waste of talent. How one person spends their money should have no bearing on how much money they make. That is way to unfair of a judgment because, well, who are we to decide.

I'm saying that Romney is claiming he is NOT responsible for Bain's activities, he is claiming he did nothing and wasn't involved. The 100,000 wasn't a retirement package. So what was it? He can't have it both ways.

As an American citizen, I sure have a right to express my opinion that building wealth using other people and destroying the environment is immoral and should be discouraged, not championed.

[valvano]

As an American citizen, I sure have a right to express my opinion that building wealth using other people and destroying the environment is immoral and should be discouraged, not championed.

well that statement right there disqualifies you of having any sense of logic. good luck finding a time machine to take you back to the stone age, because that is about the only time period I can think of that matches your requirement for a "just society"

[Dorothy Wood]

well that statement right there disqualifies you of having any sense of logic. good luck finding a time machine to take you back to the stone age, because that is about the only time period I can think of that matches your requirement for a "just society"

So, you think it's totally fine to poison the ground, air and water in the name of profit? You think it's fine to produce products that make people sick?

We can use lessons of the past to improve the future. You're just lazy and selfish, you only care about upholding the status quo no matter how damaging.

What's your job anyway? You must be doing something really rotten. Rotten enough that you have brainwashed yourself to avoid feeling any sense of moral responsibility.

[Burnout18]

I'm saying that Romney is claiming he is NOT responsible for Bain's activities, he is claiming he did nothing and wasn't involved. The 100,000 wasn't a retirement package. So what was it? He can't have it both ways.

As an American citizen, I sure have a right to express my opinion that building wealth using other people and destroying the environment is immoral and should be discouraged, not championed.

Oh ok, so that whole thing was about bashing Romney then.

[yeahwho]

Oh ok, so that whole thing was about bashing Romney then.

Not that I don't believe Obama has a major set of living in "America's reality", because I do believe he's missed the point of his job too.


I don't think anyone is really bashing poor Mitt Romney, he does a fine job of inciting disdain from anyone with a functioning logical mind. One of my favorite comments about Romney and his fucked up mindset follows below from a local Seattle Vietnam Vet. Sorry but Bush does not escape the volley. Republicans bring on this shit.




First it was G. W. Bush getting into the Texas National Guard during Vietnam, but how, and whether or not he showed up in Alabama to fly, not being important while whether or not John Kerry was wounded just once instead of twice or three times being of ever such critical importance regardless of whether the men serving with him said he had been and loved serving with him.

George's records were just so off limits; you know, cocaine or not, drunk driving or not...

And now we have Mitt.

The rest of us have taxes stacked up to the ceiling fearing audit. But not this guy who wants to be President of the U.S. He falls into the Bush class of citizen. I feel like I'm living a "Twilight Zone" production of "Upstair, Downstairs."

I remember wise cracking to some of my buddies in Vietnam one morning over c-rations, "I wonder what they're having for breakfast in D.C. this morning." And meant every bitterly sarcastic ton of anger in it, too. Little did I know that Mr. Romney, despite being all full of his "support the war attitude," was sitting Vietnam out in France. Might have been sharing pain au chocolate with a friend even as I spoke. Now it's his taxes he's sitting out.

If voters aren't feeling a little hacked off by the sudden reappearance of the Tories 236 years after the Revolution, with all of their superior class attitude, they haven't been paying attention to the Conservative efforts to re-institute government by the Gilded Class these last 12 years.

John McBride
Seattle, WA

[Dorothy Wood]

Oh ok, so that whole thing was about bashing Romney then.

It was about expressing my opposition to inflated wealth, and the excuses that come with it.

[Burnout18]

I don't think anyone is really bashing poor Mitt Romney,

Yeah, no, what i cant stand is an opinion formed based off of a political bias. Like I get it, dorothy wont ever like anything romney does ever.... but when you start to take it to the next degree of seperation, thats when you start to just sound like a biased hack.

For example, if you want to attack romney right now you could be critical of Bain capital... and private equity firms in general. Yet 12-15 months ago no one gave a shit about bain capital, thats even if you ever heard of them. Still, people who bash bain will go see a movie at an AMC theater, eat and drink at dominos and dunkin donuts, shop for their kids at "toys r us" or head into sports authority for sporting goods. Hypocitical to say the least.

I enjoy the debate and the exhange of ideas.... but i get turned off immediately when we start bending stats and facts to fit a side of Democrat Vs. Republican.... Thats why i dont last long in the political arena. I guess its Its Me, not you.

[yeahwho]

I enjoy the debate and the exhange of ideas.... but i get turned off immediately when we start bending stats and facts to fit a side of Democrat Vs. Republican.... Thats why i dont last long in the political arena. I guess its Its Me, not you.

They are both jackasses, Dems and Reps. Mainly I'm talking about Romney because this thread IS about Romney.

Taking away political affiliation and just looking at both Obama and Romney the most definitive difference immediately is wealth, Romney is extremely wealthy. That is key to wondering (just like Bush, Kerry, and other very wealthy candidates) HEY? Where did they make all this cash and what are they doing with it.

Mitt wants unquestionably to be the most powerful person on earth, he has a shitload of $$$ and as citizens, patriots and still true owners of our Country we should be all over his ass just as the Republicans and bizarre media outlets are all over Obama's ass.

Affiliation is semi-important, but really just look at this Romney a little closer and you can see he is really out of touch with anybody I know. He's frightening.

Romney wants to make America the kind of Country he can one day deposit his money in.

[Dorothy Wood]

Yeah, no, what i cant stand is an opinion formed based off of a political bias. Like I get it, dorothy wont ever like anything romney does ever.... but when you start to take it to the next degree of seperation, thats when you start to just sound like a biased hack.

For example, if you want to attack romney right now you could be critical of Bain capital... and private equity firms in general. Yet 12-15 months ago no one gave a shit about bain capital, thats even if you ever heard of them. Still, people who bash bain will go see a movie at an AMC theater, eat and drink at dominos and dunkin donuts, shop for their kids at "toys r us" or head into sports authority for sporting goods. Hypocitical to say the least.

I enjoy the debate and the exhange of ideas.... but i get turned off immediately when we start bending stats and facts to fit a side of Democrat Vs. Republican.... Thats why i dont last long in the political arena. I guess its Its Me, not you.

Name one part of anything I said that was politically biased...name one instance where I said "Republican". What next degree of separation did I take anything to? Romney was given $100,000/year after he "retired", but has no explanation for it and claims he wasn't involved at all in Bain's outsourcing plans, or fetus disposal company investment.

I have always given a shit about shady corporate behavior, a lot of people have. I wasn't familiar with Bain by name, no, but I know what they do. AMC went out of business in my town. I never eat dominos, I eat at local pizza places. I bought my bike helmet at sports authority, but otherwise I patronize independent cycling shops. Sure, I go to Dunkin Donuts for coffee once a month or so. I don't have kids. All these places are kinda known for having shitty products anyway.

You're just painting a picture of some non-existent person that you're having an argument with in your mind.

Romney's a hypocrite, and an uncouth weirdo...and if you can't see that, you're the one who is biased.

[Burnout18]

Name one part of anything I said that was politically biased...name one instance where I said "Republican". What next degree of separation did I take anything to? Romney was given $100,000/year after he "retired", but has no explanation for it and claims he wasn't involved at all in Bain's outsourcing plans, or fetus disposal company investment.

I have always given a shit about shady corporate behavior, a lot of people have. I wasn't familiar with Bain by name, no, but I know what they do. AMC went out of business in my town. I never eat dominos, I eat at local pizza places. I bought my bike helmet at sports authority, but otherwise I patronize independent cycling shops. Sure, I go to Dunkin Donuts for coffee once a month or so. I don't have kids. All these places are kinda known for having shitty products anyway.

You're just painting a picture of some non-existent person that you're having an argument with in your mind.

Romney's a hypocrite, and an uncouth weirdo...and if you can't see that, you're the one who is biased.

Ok this is simple.... I was talking about deferred compensation in general, then in a post from 7/19 you circled back to poking holes at romney's image/story. That leads me to ask What comes first? The disdain for Romney or disdain for deferred compensation?

I defended deferring pay, not mitt romney. I could care less about him, but I do recall YOU starting a thread a while back in the general forum. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it about how you don't like religion or religious people? Sorry but if mitt Romney is a practicing Mormon, what chance does he really have in your eyes? Isn't that a bias? Not liking someone because of faith?

Gee I dunno, I have always tried to be accepting of ppl, and not judge an individual based on color, sex, profession, faith or sexual orientation.

[Burnout18]

They are both jackasses, Dems and Reps. Mainly I'm talking about Romney because this thread IS about Romney.

Affiliation is semi-important, but really just look at this Romney a little closer and you can see he is really out of touch with anybody I know. He's frightening.

Romney wants to make America the kind of Country he can one day deposit his money in.

Mitt does not resemble anyone I know either.... I can see how he looks like a stereotypical dick head wall street CEO from the outside.

However, is that last line a terrible thing? Do we not want the American economy growing to the point where we have wealthy investors worldwide tripping over themselves to invest here?

[Dorothy Wood]

Ok this is simple.... I was talking about deferred compensation in general, then in a post from 7/19 you circled back to poking holes at romney's image/story. That leads me to ask What comes first? The disdain for Romney or disdain for deferred compensation?

I defended deferring pay, not mitt romney. I could care less about him, but I do recall YOU starting a thread a while back in the general forum. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it about how you don't like religion or religious people? Sorry but if mitt Romney is a practicing Mormon, what chance does he really have in your eyes? Isn't that a bias? Not liking someone because of faith?

Gee I dunno, I have always tried to be accepting of ppl, and not judge an individual based on color, sex, profession, faith or sexual orientation.

Huh? You're really reaching. I am judging Romney for his actions and background in business and politics. I don't have a problem with Mormons, I liked Jon Hunstman, and any Mormons I've interacted with (granted, mainly children I've taught) are very smart and polite.

We're not talking about deferred compensation...I mean, do you even know anything about Romney or the situation I'm talking about?

This is getting weird, honestly.

Mitt does not resemble anyone I know either.... I can see how he looks like a stereotypical dick head wall street CEO from the outside.

However, is that last line a terrible thing? Do we not want the American economy growing to the point where we have wealthy investors worldwide tripping over themselves to invest here?

Are you serious? you do realize that tons of wealthy investors world wide DO invest in the U.S.? You do realize that we have shit tons of money, right? It's just all nested with a few people at the top. Do some research, for fuck's sake.

[kaiser soze]

Romney for the Outsourced States of America

this guy is a vietnam draft dodger, crook, and elitist asshole

worse than Palin

[yeahwho]

Mitt does not resemble anyone I know either.... I can see how he looks like a stereotypical dick head wall street CEO from the outside.

So at least we can agree he looks like a dickhead, to most everybody alive. Outside of a select few (those few with a few million $$$ lying around) like his buddy Edward Conard (http://www.amazon.com/Unintended-Consequences-Everything-Youve-Economy/dp/1591845505/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343594655&sr=1-1&keywords=conard+unintended+consequences).

[Burnout18]

Huh? You're really reaching. I am judging Romney for his actions and background in business and politics. I don't have a problem with Mormons, I liked Jon Hunstman, and any Mormons I've interacted with (granted, mainly children I've taught) are very smart and polite.

No i'm not. You you come off as a biased person to me. I think it clouds your logic. Dont back track, I already read and commented in the thread where you talk about your distate for religion. I think you do the same thing with politics.... your let your political bias effect any and every topic in the news. I refuse to do that.

We're not talking about deferred compensation...I mean, do you even know anything about Romney or the situation I'm talking about?

Yeah we were. Sorry but you were talking about him while he was "retroactivley retired" and why i thought he could still accept compensation while not being actively involved in Bain activities. You even responded a few times on subject. You were there, you just gave up and went back to the easy target.

This is getting weird, honestly.

That is opinion.

Are you serious? you do realize that tons of wealthy investors world wide DO invest in the U.S.? You do realize that we have shit tons of money, right? It's just all nested with a few people at the top. Do some research, for fuck's sake.

First off shit tons is also an opinion and not nearly a real number. I would argue that SOME money is being invested back into the economy, but it is no where near the money where it could be. Growth has been slowing since march. GDP nmber has to (typically) be higher than 2 percent to lower unemployment... its now at 1.5. There are record low volume numbers on wall street. That tends to tell us Theres a lot of individual and corporations sitting on cash right now, not willing to invest. Partially because of all the ties american companies have to the eurozone...along with the so called "fiscal cliff" that depends on politics in washington... and bernanke and the fed deciding on QE3. "Shit ton" is a general number.... do some research... are you kidding me?

[Dorothy Wood]

No i'm not. You you come off as a biased person to me. I think it clouds your logic. Dont back track, I already read and commented in the thread where you talk about your distate for religion. I think you do the same thing with politics.... your let your political bias effect any and every topic in the news. I refuse to do that.



Yeah we were. Sorry but you were talking about him while he was "retroactivley retired" and why i thought he could still accept compensation while not being actively involved in Bain activities. You even responded a few times on subject. You were there, you just gave up and went back to the easy target.



That is opinion.



First off shit tons is also an opinion and not nearly a real number. I would argue that SOME money is being invested back into the economy, but it is no where near the money where it could be. Growth has been slowing since march. GDP nmber has to (typically) be higher than 2 percent to lower unemployment... its now at 1.5. There are record low volume numbers on wall street. That tends to tell us Theres a lot of individual and corporations sitting on cash right now, not willing to invest. Partially because of all the ties american companies have to the eurozone...along with the so called "fiscal cliff" that depends on politics in washington... and bernanke and the fed deciding on QE3. "Shit ton" is a general number.... do some research... are you kidding me?

Okay, you've got your panties in a twist because you're taking this all very personally, you're really reading too far into a basic statement I made. By your logic, I can't even like my own mother because she's a devout Christian.

What I'm talking about is the fact that $100,000/year is a lot to most people in this country, but to Romney it's pocket change. I'm saying that Romney was on the payroll for Bain, but is claiming he did nothing for Bain during that time...basically to get out of being responsible for any of the issues that have been called into question. What I'm saying is that I find this ridiculous. I am allowed to have that opinion. Do I think Romney should pay that money back? No, it's not about the actual money, it's about the principle...ultimately it was his company, he could've paid himself whatever he wanted. I can still think it's a ridiculous situation that he is claiming no responsibility for the actions of Bain after 1999.

....documents place Romney in charge of Bain from 1999 to 2001, a period in which the company outsourced jobs and ran companies that fell into bankruptcy. Romney has tried to distance himself from this period in Bain's history, saying on financial disclosure forms that he had no active role in Bain as of February 1999.

But at least three times since then, Bain has listed Romney as the company's "controlling person," as well as its "sole shareholder, sole director, chief executive officer and president." And one of those documents -- as late as February 2001 -- lists Romney's "principal occupation" as Bain's managing director.

from: http://www.freep.com/article/20120716/NEWS15/207160317/Mitt-Romney-s-role-in-Bain-Capital-outsourcing-center-issue-in-campaign-bickering


As for that last part, I was using the hyperbolic term "shit ton" because you were acting like everyone has abandoned the U.S. and no one is doing anything. I think that's a cynical trap to fall in, and it's constantly being pushed by fear mongers.

Anyway, I like how you are always refusing to judge everyone else but me, haha. You have something against me, I get it. I can't have a productive conversation with you because you don't actually understand my point of view and you don't even want to try.

I'm not politically biased, I frequently side with conservative ideas. I might have voted for McCain if Palin wasn't the VP choice. I do think Jon Huntsman would be more qualified to be president than Obama. I supported a Republican candidate for senator because he had more experience and is a veteran, and didn't kowtow to the religious right. Basically, I am angry that the Republican party has been taken over by religious extremists, and I am angry that politicians baby them and use them as pawns, promising to rid the world of gays and abortions just to get votes. I am mostly angry about people being selfish and short-sighted in both parties.




Additional comments (if you've gotten this far without falling asleep):

I bet you didn't even actually read past the first page of my thread about religion, but I ended up saying this:

"I'm certainly not ignorant about religion, I've studied it, read the bible, memorized scripture, attended church services, mostly all my friends were raised catholic (I go to midnight mass on Christmas eve with the one who still kinda believes). I recognize the major influence it's had on humankind with regard to organizing people, helping people find peace, inspiring art and architecture, alleviating fear of death, etc. I've stared at a cross, I've prayed, I've felt the spiritual power of the Christian God.

I'm actually in a church right now, listening to my mom's choir practice. And that's where the power is, in the human voice. The spirit is in man and it should be celebrated, but the power doesn't come from the words, it comes from the music.

I understand the power of collective thought, the power of ritual. But I don't believe, I can't believe in anything that now destroys more than it creates.

To me, art is God, science is God. The god I'm supposed to worship according to the majority of my fellow citizens is false in my opinion. And I believe that doubt exists in everyone because deep down they know it's impossible to be certain of anything at all."

[Burnout18]

Okay, you've got your panties in a twist because you're taking this all very personally, you're really reading too far into a basic statement I made. By your logic, I can't even like my own mother because she's a devout Christian.

What I'm talking about is the fact that $100,000/year is a lot to most people in this country, but to Romney it's pocket change. I'm saying that Romney was on the payroll for Bain, but is claiming he did nothing for Bain during that time...basically to get out of being responsible for any of the issues that have been called into question. What I'm saying is that I find this ridiculous. I am allowed to have that opinion. Do I think Romney should pay that money back? No, it's not about the actual money, it's about the principle...ultimately it was his company, he could've paid himself whatever he wanted. I can still think it's a ridiculous situation that he is claiming no responsibility for the actions of Bain after 1999.


from: http://www.freep.com/article/20120716/NEWS15/207160317/Mitt-Romney-s-role-in-Bain-Capital-outsourcing-center-issue-in-campaign-bickering


As for that last part, I was using the hyperbolic term "shit ton" because you were acting like everyone has abandoned the U.S. and no one is doing anything. I think that's a cynical trap to fall in, and it's constantly being pushed by fear mongers.

Anyway, I like how you are always refusing to judge everyone else but me, haha. You have something against me, I get it. I can't have a productive conversation with you because you don't actually understand my point of view and you don't even want to try.

I'm not politically biased, I frequently side with conservative ideas. I might have voted for McCain if Palin wasn't the VP choice. I do think Jon Huntsman would be more qualified to be president than Obama. I supported a Republican candidate for senator because he had more experience and is a veteran, and didn't kowtow to the religious right. Basically, I am angry that the Republican party has been taken over by religious extremists, and I am angry that politicians baby them and use them as pawns, promising to rid the world of gays and abortions just to get votes. I am mostly angry about people being selfish and short-sighted in both parties.




Additional comments (if you've gotten this far without falling asleep):

I bet you didn't even actually read past the first page of my thread about religion, but I ended up saying this:

"I'm certainly not ignorant about religion, I've studied it, read the bible, memorized scripture, attended church services, mostly all my friends were raised catholic (I go to midnight mass on Christmas eve with the one who still kinda believes). I recognize the major influence it's had on humankind with regard to organizing people, helping people find peace, inspiring art and architecture, alleviating fear of death, etc. I've stared at a cross, I've prayed, I've felt the spiritual power of the Christian God.

I'm actually in a church right now, listening to my mom's choir practice. And that's where the power is, in the human voice. The spirit is in man and it should be celebrated, but the power doesn't come from the words, it comes from the music.

I understand the power of collective thought, the power of ritual. But I don't believe, I can't believe in anything that now destroys more than it creates.

To me, art is God, science is God. The god I'm supposed to worship according to the majority of my fellow citizens is false in my opinion. And I believe that doubt exists in everyone because deep down they know it's impossible to be certain of anything at all."

I just dont get how you cant comprehend a former chief executive receiving compensation while no longer working for the company. Its not to avoid responsibility or whatever the fuck you think it is. That happens when people leave. Shit A-rod is going to get money from the yankees when his contract is up, for like two years.... Sometimes people even get paid Not to work. Crazy right? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/retiring-ge-executive-89-000-031500058.html

that comment about your mother is silly because personal relationships trump biases... and yeah i read, and commented, in that thread.... and "might have ... if" doesnt really sell me on your chances of voting for McCain. Look back at this thread, at what preceded the "do some research for fucks sake" comment. You basically tried to oppose a statement i made without nothing substantial behind it, and that comment compiled with shit said in the wall street thread, im going to guess financial markets and the economy arent your strong suit.... Its weird to me, when i am in a discussion that isnt my strong suit i try to listen and learn things. Some people are just more concerned about their own opinion's worth than admitting they were wrong or didnt understand a topic. That will always bother me... so no its not you personally.

[Dorothy Wood]

I just dont get how you cant comprehend a former chief executive receiving compensation while no longer working for the company. Its not to avoid responsibility or whatever the fuck you think it is. That happens when people leave. Shit A-rod is going to get money from the yankees when his contract is up, for like two years.... Sometimes people even get paid Not to work. Crazy right? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/retiring-ge-executive-89-000-031500058.html

that comment about your mother is silly because personal relationships trump biases... and yeah i read, and commented, in that thread.... and "might have ... if" doesnt really sell me on your chances of voting for McCain. Look back at this thread, at what preceded the "do some research for fucks sake" comment. You basically tried to oppose a statement i made without nothing substantial behind it, and that comment compiled with shit said in the wall street thread, im going to guess financial markets and the economy arent your strong suit.... Its weird to me, when i am in a discussion that isnt my strong suit i try to listen and learn things. Some people are just more concerned about their own opinion's worth than admitting they were wrong or didnt understand a topic. That will always bother me... so no its not you personally.


Man, you are a frustrating person to talk to. This is a thread about how Romney sucks. I started yelling at Valvano and he asked me "who are you to decide" how much people should make, so I responded. Then you jumped in and put words in my mouth saying "I would never be disgusted by someone who is retired or semi retired collecting a salary or bonus....", implying that I was disgusted by the amount of money, when I never said I was "disgusted" at all. My point was that the situation is absurd. My point is that it wasn't a a retirement package (you really think he'd only get $100,000/year if it were an actual part of his retirement?), the $100,000/year was a salary.

I understand that he took a leave of absence, and I understand that $100,000 is peanuts to a person like him and probably just a technicality. Like a retainer in case he decided to come back after the Olympics. But to say that he had absolutely no involvement in the business dealings and decisions while he was still listed as the CEO until 2002, is again, absurd. If he built the company and hired his successors, how is he not responsible for what followed in the 3 short years after his "retirement"? It's not like it was 10 years later, some of this shit was months later. He left in February 1999 for Salt Lake, the investment in Stericycle (the aborted fetus disposal company) was finalized in November 1999. And because he flopped over to the pro-life side, and because he can't be seen profiting from abortion, he's all of a sudden "retroactively retired" and couldn't possibly be involved. Yeah fucking right! That's all I'm saying, is yeah. fucking. right.


So basically, you didn't understand my point, so you attacked the point of view you made up for me. You keep trying to patronize me on top of it, and all I can do is shake my head.


That GE thing is definitely crazy. Again, I don't think anyone works hard enough to deserve money like that...and again, that's my opinion. I don't like that people are so greedy and so disloyal that they have to be paid not to work for the competition. I'm not saying there should be laws to take money away from people, I"m just saying I don't like how things are and I don't know how to change it. I'm saying that I think greed is immoral, which means I think Romney and his ilk act immorally. I do not want a president that reinforces the idea that the richest people are the most valuable people.

And it really pisses me off that anyone would consider me "jealous" or "dumb" because I think people should invest in their communities and care about other people instead of running roughshod over everybody to make a buck.


So to conclude, you made a very annoying passive aggressive statement:
"Its weird to me, when i am in a discussion that isnt my strong suit i try to listen and learn things. Some people are just more concerned about their own opinion's worth than admitting they were wrong or didnt understand a topic. That will always bother me... so no its not you personally."


And I say apply that same statement to yourself.