A Challenge To Everyone...

[Whois]

Originally Posted by Mae

Im pretty sure he had his tongue in his cheek when he was writing that.

His asscheek...

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by Mae

This is a very valid point. But sometimes I feel that the fighting has no purpose on here. Some of the arguments are just people throwing around their own egos instead of fact.

oh yeah...most of what you see on here are E-penis debates.
i've stated that plenty of times.
i'm guilty of it from time to time.

Debate is fantastic. It initiates progress. But I think arguing for the sake of arguing is...well...gay.

wait.....are you calling me gay?

[ASsman]

Originally Posted by Whois

His asscheek...

Mmm, Caesar Salad.

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by Mae

are you saying you argue for the sake of arguing?

no.
well, maybe...sometimes....out of curiosity....wait, what are we talking about?

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by Mae

Homo.

HEY!, HE CAME ON TO ME!....TO ME!!....









this thread is decomposing....

[Whois]

Calling people faggots is gay...

[ASsman]

No ones perfect.
Except all non-gays.

[Whois]

Fun with words...

[D_Raay]

That was entertaining...

Ace being right and me pointing that out does not make me his cheerleader, btw.

That fence your sitting on is getting wobbly and decaying Q. You better decide which way you are going to fall. I hear there are vermicious knids on the right side, while the left side seems to partying or picketing with the oompa-loompas.

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by D_Raay

That fence your sitting on is getting wobbly and decaying Q. You better decide which way you are going to fall. I hear there are vermicious knids on the right side, while the left side seems to partying or picketing with the oompa-loompas.

why such fustration against an independant centrist?

so i can't have sentiments that cover the full range of politics?
what, EXACTLY, is your issue with my beliefs?
i really don't get it.

drop the silly fence metaphors and engage in some converstation.....









if the oompa loompa promise to sing some songs.......that may sway me.

[D_Raay]

How old are you Q? If you don't mind me asking?

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by D_Raay

How old are you Q? If you don't mind me asking?

27, umarried but attached.
i pay my taxes,....

buying a house in the summer.

college educated....2 degrees including a masters- almost top of my class.

well paid proffesional job.

grew up in primarily conservative setting, though the younger side of my family leans toward liberal ideals.

much of my family has been in the military...some are in IRAQ now.
my cousin was one of the soldiers who rescues jessica lynch.
a plattoon of newly trained Iraqi troops my uncle just trained in Falluja were slaughtered during a convoy.

my best friend is farther left than ANY of you.

my sister is gay. i love her with all my heart.

i went to a catholic school till 13.....i saw the worst side of catholisism. (not me personally) if you catch my drift.

can you see how all of these things can contribute to having a wide spectrum of beliefs....
and how simply taking a "side" and trying to force myself into a certain sized slot just doesn't work?

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by Mae

Actually I have to point out that I really dont consider Q a fence sitter.

On some issues he has very LEFT views and on others he has very RIGHT views. But he never teeters on the edge ever.

He doesnt sit on the fence at all.

my point exactly. thank you.

[ASsman]

I wonder what Rev. Run has to say about all this.

[D_Raay]

See, I knew you were a decent enough fellow even without knowing those facts and tidbits...
Just trying to prod you along toward being a bit more progressive. My job provides me the opportunity to see a bit of the seedy underbelly of Capitol Hill. Being 33 and been around the block a bit in Washington, I am certain of one thing; All administrations have been interesting more in working towards their best interests, not the people of this country. However, this one in particular, is particularly brazen and has NO interest in the people. These fellows rely on fear and lies and bullying tactics. There is no accountability. A false agenda of morales disguised in what is really a sexist inner organization.
Want to question them about something? You better get advance permission. And if they don't like the question? It will NOT be asked.

So, forgive me Q, for irritating you. The American people dropped the ball on this one. And I can't blame them really. They do a great job of masking the truth.
The reason I hold such contempt for the right is that they have a better opportunity to expose this administration and choose not to do so out of fear or greed. And I take every opportunity to sway someone away from the right when I can.

[ASsman]

I think we failed this challenge.

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by D_Raay

See, I knew you were a decent enough fellow even without knowing those facts and tidbits...
Just trying to prod you along toward being a bit more progressive. My job provides me the opportunity to see a bit of the seedy underbelly of Capitol Hill. Being 33 and been around the block a bit in Washington, I am certain of one thing; All administrations have been interesting more in working towards their best interests, not the people of this country. However, this one in particular, is particularly brazen and has NO interest in the people. These fellows rely on fear and lies and bullying tactics. There is no accountability. A false agenda of morales disguised in what is really a sexist inner organization.
Want to question them about something? You better get advance permission. And if they don't like the question? It will NOT be asked.

So, forgive me Q, for irritating you. The American people dropped the ball on this one. And I can't blame them really. They do a great job of masking the truth.
The reason I hold such contempt for the right is that they have a better opportunity to expose this administration and choose not to do so out of fear or greed. And I take every opportunity to sway someone away from the right when I can.

rest assurred, i am not republican....and rarely (if ever) do i hold many of their ideals up.- other than need for military actions, and a death penalty.

my critisizm of the left does not come from any republican virtues within me, but purely from an objective standpoint.
when i call most liberals "overly ideological", i get no satisfaction that the few conservatives on this board chuckle.

i get annoyed by liberals and much of the left.....but I fear and often loath the right.

i am progressive by nature....i think i have shown that over the months.

the point i want to make, and one i wish others would hold dear, is that my beleifs do NOT come from a party or a platform of any kind.
i believe only the weak minded do such.

my beleifs come from my own research and understanding of history, science, and psychology...
if some of those stances happen to align with the left, so be it. with the right, so be it.
that is NOT my concern.

if you feel i am misguided or misinformed, at least i got there ON MY OWN...and will find my own way out with more research and life lessons.

i have not, and will not simply adopt and parrot mantra's from pre-existing parties or platforms.
it is not in my nature.

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by ASsman

I think we failed this challenge.

hahahaha....



yeah.

[STANKY808]

Originally Posted by Qdrop

...I rarely (if ever) do i hold many of their ideals up.- other than need for military actions, and a death penalty.

i am progressive by nature....i think i have shown that over the months.

Never heard one describe thenselves as progressive AND support the death penalty. I'm interested to know if your support is due to a desire to punish? Or perhaps it's the deterrent effect you feel is valuable?

And before you go off - I agree entirely that one should form their own views rather than simply adopt a party dogma.

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by STANKY808

Never heard one describe thenselves as progressive AND support the death penalty. I'm interested to know if your support is due to a desire to punish? Or perhaps it's the deterrent effect you feel is valuable?

no, i don't think it is much of a deterant.....it's foolish to use as such.

pure punishment, carries little or no value for society.....who are you punishing? the guy you are killing?...what lesson can he learn when he's dead?

my reason for supporting the death penalty is an EXTREMELY HARDLINE APPROACH.

i believe that if ANYONE exhibits extreme anti-social behavior (pre-medatated murder, sexual predatory acts, pedophilia, high level of treason, even cronic criminal activity of a lesser degree like stealing,ect) they are of no value to a society, only a detraction. they should be permantly removed.
not life-imprisonment....social exsponging.


yes, that is "playing god" in a sense. but i don't beleive in a GOD, thus we, as rational human beings in the quest for a productive, safe society...have the responsibility to maintain it and remove any "social cancers", if you will.

as far those criminals that have not commited heinous crimes, buy rather cronic criminal activity of a lesser degree:
i am not against rehibilitation....in fact, i believe that prisons should concentrate almost entirely on that. their current purpose of "containment" is nothing short of cattle rearing. that entire system needs a paradigm switch.

if people cannot engage in society in a law abiding way and be productive....we should not just throw them in a small room for a few years (which has the opposite intended effect in most cases)- only to come out harder than before.
give them a real chance at rehabilitation through therapy and education. we as a society, have a responsibility to do so.

if given that chance, they continue in a criminal manner.....death penalty.

not all people are equal in my book.

cronic criminals are not on the same level and do not deserve the same civil rights as law abiding citizens. period.

[STANKY808]

Originally Posted by Qdrop

no, i don't think it is much of a deterant.....it's foolish to use as such.

pure punishment, carries little or no value for society.....who are you punishing? the guy you are killing?...what lesson can he learn when he's dead?

my reason for supporting the death penalty is an EXTREMELY HARDLINE APPROACH.

i believe that if ANYONE exhibits extreme anti-social behavior (pre-medatated murder, sexual predatory acts, pedophilia, high level of treason, even cronic criminal activity of a lesser degree like stealing,ect) they are of no value to a society, only a detraction. they should be permantly removed.
not life-imprisonment....social exsponging.


yes, that is "playing god" in a sense. but i don't beleive in a GOD, thus we, as rational human beings in the quest for a productive, safe society...have the responsibility to maintain it and remove any "social cancers", if you will.

as far those criminals that have not commited heinous crimes, buy rather cronic criminal activity of a lesser degree:
i am not against rehibilitation....in fact, i believe that prisons should concentrate almost entirely on that. their current purpose of "containment" is nothing short of cattle rearing. that entire system needs a paradigm switch.

if people cannot engage in society in a law abiding way and be productive....we should not just throw them in a small room for a few years (which has the opposite intended effect in most cases)- only to come out harder than before.
give them a real chance at rehabilitation through therapy and education. we as a society, have a responsibility to do so.

if given that chance, they continue in a criminal manner.....death penalty.

not all people are equal in my book.

cronic criminals are not on the same level and do not deserve the same civil rights as law abiding citizens. period.

Firstly, thank you for the civil response.

That all makes sense except the part about all people not being equal. While I agree, I do believe in equal protection and wonder why you feel a "chronic criminal" does not deserve a chance at rehabilitation? I mean if someone is caught in a criminal act and offered rehabilitation how do we know they are not a "chronic criminal" and just haven't been caught yet? And the part that really freaks me out and you didn't mention - how can the state be sure of someone's guilt? There have been numerous instances of people on death row who should not be there except for inept counsel or prosecutorial misconduct. What I mean is that someone (i.e. me) could be wrongfully convicted and executed and yet be completely innocent.

My point remains - a progressive would never say that an individual is of no value to society. Studying psychopaths could be useful. Learning what drives an individual to anti-social behaviour could be used to better understand and catch early stages of the diplayed behaviour. We can learn from them AND protect society by keeping them locked up.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by D_Raay

All administrations have been interesting more in working towards their best interests, not the people of this country. However, this one in particular, is particularly brazen and has NO interest in the people. These fellows rely on fear and lies and bullying tactics. There is no accountability. A false agenda of morales disguised in what is really a sexist inner organization.
Want to question them about something? You better get advance permission. And if they don't like the question? It will NOT be asked.

That was excellent. Goooooooooooo D_Raay!!!!!!

You know this is pretty much what everybody I know in Seattle thinks. My co-workers, kids, parents (mine included), all of my friends, every shop I go into and every conversation over 5 minutes usually ends up with this administrations callous handling of humanity in the search for the almighty $.

It is not unspoken and we recognize this administrations destruction of the social fabric of the world. Of course what do we know? We're just a bunch of friggin' loggers out in the woods.

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by STANKY808

Firstly, thank you for the civil response.

That all makes sense except the part about all people not being equal. While I agree, I do believe in equal protection and wonder why you feel a "chronic criminal" does not deserve a chance at rehabilitation? I mean if someone is caught in a criminal act and offered rehabilitation how do we know they are not a "chronic criminal" and just haven't been caught yet?

i guess i didn't explain myself well enough.
I DO believe a chronic criminal deserves a chance at rehabilitation- one chance. then you leave this world.

And the part that really freaks me out and you didn't mention - how can the state be sure of someone's guilt? There have been numerous instances of people on death row who should not be there except for inept counsel or prosecutorial misconduct. What I mean is that someone (i.e. me) could be wrongfully convicted and executed and yet be completely innocent.

i definately see your point.
however, with the advances in DNA and genetics, and other criminal investigative advancements....those wrongful convictions are decreasing AND being overturned from years ago.
true, there is a room for error.....but any practice is not fool proof.

My point remains - a progressive would never say that an individual is of no value to society.

i soundly disagree. i believe it more progressive to be more hardline on crimimals in general. it would advance society and remove the many cancers plaguing it.

Studying psychopaths could be useful. Learning what drives an individual to anti-social behaviour could be used to better understand and catch early stages of the diplayed behaviour. We can learn from them AND protect society by keeping them locked up.

agreed to an extent.
once they have been convicted and sentanced to death....do as much research as you wish, they have given up thier rights as inviduals.
then, upon conclusion of the research....kill em.


obvioulsy few would agree with my approach (few liberals, anway)....but one thing all should agree on: the current criminal legal system does not work.

suggestions?

[STANKY808]

Originally Posted by Qdrop

obvioulsy few would agree with my approach (few liberals, anway)....

Given that "liberal" has been transformed into an epithet in your country, please don't lump me in with them (I too have problem with most of 'em - limousine liberals that is). I'm not saying you did that, just want to ask that label not be applied to me. The only label I'll accept is -

Johnny Walker Blue!

[Mac D]

Qdrop, i don't mind "ripping" on people, my friends and i do it all the time. the matter of this is the creation of specific threads calling out someone, especially on a ridculous thing like evolution.

[D_Raay]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

That was excellent. Goooooooooooo D_Raay!!!!!!

You know this is pretty much what everybody I know in Seattle thinks. My co-workers, kids, parents (mine included), all of my friends, every shop I go into and every conversation over 5 minutes usually ends up with this administrations callous handling of humanity in the search for the almighty $.

It is not unspoken and we recognize this administrations destruction of the social fabric of the world. Of course what do we know? We're just a bunch of friggin' loggers out in the woods.

Thanks for the affirmation yeahwho

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by STANKY808

Given that "liberal" has been transformed into an epithet in your country, please don't lump me in with them (I too have problem with most of 'em - limousine liberals that is). I'm not saying you did that, just want to ask that label not be applied to me.

not a problem. i'm in the same boat as you.


well, well.....dare i say i've found another independant centrist on this board? i was gettin lonely....

[ASsman]

Originally Posted by Mac D

especially on a ridculous thing like evolution.

Evolution is ridiculous? Or the calling out?

[Qdrop]

Originally Posted by Mac D

especially on a ridculous thing like evolution.

oh man....

Racer?...ILL?.....you have a new friend.

[Mac D]

Originally Posted by Ace42

Why not learn how to use the shift key first? It will certainly help with your schoolwork.

hey man when i type on non serious things, such as a message board or aim, i don't bother going for the shift key. who cares? plus, there's no need for a shift key in math anyway. i dunno, maybe not taking an english class semester was a mistake. ha, people take this board too seriously.