Rumsfeld may regret his arrogance

[D_Raay]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...towardustroops

By the early 1970s, after seven long and savage years of fighting in Vietnam, the phrase that came to characterize the pitiful hopelessness and absurdity of that conflict was, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it."


Unbelievably, our secretary of defense has just given us the existential phrases for the Iraq (news - web sites) war: "As you know, you go to war with the Army you have ... not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

How could Donald Rumsfeld, a smart and savvy man despite his perverse fascination with conflict, possibly say such an insulting and arrogant thing to American soldiers? Is he really trying to tell them, as it surely sounded last Wednesday when he addressed American troops in Kuwait, that they are not the Army he wanted, but he had to put up with them?

Senators Joseph Biden Jr. and Chuck Hagel just returned from Iraq, saying that not one American general said we were winning. Other warnings are the same. Rumsfeld's answer to everything is to train Iraqi forces to take the place of ours (perhaps because we, poor guys, only have "the Army we have"), but they are falling apart in many Iraqi cities.

And then Rumsfeld made things even worse. Responding to questions as to why he did not even remotely anticipate these intense "insurgencies," he answered blithely: "I don't think anyone would say that the intelligence left anyone with the impression that you'd be in the degree of insurgency you're in today." No look at Iraqi history, no attempt to match ambition to potential, no common sense --and surely no apologies!

You can see the anger beginning to build in the armed forces, with the "stop-loss" policies that force men and women to stay in uniform long after their terms are over, with the callousness about the armor, with the ludicrous analysis by the civilians in the Pentagon of what Iraq and its history were really like.

Now his unfortunate quote will go down in history to show how much he and his group, most of them remote and self-interested intellectuals, look at battlefield soldiers as chess pieces at their disposal. In the end, they care about nothing except their game.

[100% ILL]

I thought when he said, you go to war with the army you have, he was talking about the armament on the vehicles. As in, it wasn't in place but as you know you go to war with the army you have. But I suppose it depends on how you want to take it.

If you're having lunch with somone you despise, the way they butter their toast will anger you. If you're having lunch with someone you admire, and they dump the contents of their plate into your lap you would not be offended.

[ASsman]

If you're having lunch with somone you despise, the way they butter their toast will anger you. If you're having lunch with someone you admire, and they dump the contents of their plate into your lap you would not be offended.

Nice Job... What are you .. Jesus now? Speaking in proverbs?

[bigkidpants]

Originally Posted by D_Raay

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...towardustroops
Senators Joseph Biden Jr. and Chuck Hagel just returned from Iraq, saying that not one American general said we were winning. Other warnings are the same. Rumsfeld's answer to everything is to train Iraqi forces to take the place of ours . . .

where's the ambiguity? sounds like we're getting beat pretty bad and, now that we have the oil and permanent bases, we'd like to just get this stupid democracy, liberation thing over with already.

If you're having lunch with somone you despise, the way they butter their toast will anger you. If you're having lunch with someone you admire, and they dump the contents of their plate into your lap you would not be offended.

without a doubt, the bush administration has dumped the entire contents of its lunch in our laps. what is your reaction?

[Ali]

I thought when he said, you go to war with the army you have, he was talking about the armament on the vehicles. As in, it wasn't in place but as you know you go to war with the army you have. But I suppose it depends on how you want to take it

Maybe you should go over there and ride in one of those unarmoured vehicles and see how YOU take it?

[Rosie Cotton]

Originally Posted by 100% ILL

If you're having lunch with someone you admire, and they dump the contents of their plate into your lap you would not be offended.

I don't know about you, but if my best friend dropped a plate of food in my lap, I'd be slightly peeved.

[SobaViolence]

can't the US just descend into civil war already?

i'm tired of this bullshit. die America.

[D_Raay]

Originally Posted by SobaViolence

can't the US just descend into civil war already?

i'm tired of this bullshit. die America.

We are at war already. A war of words. No one has had the balls to pull a trigger yet.

[Rosie Cotton]

Originally Posted by SobaViolence

can't the US just descend into civil war already?

i'm tired of this bullshit. die America.

I agree. I've always thought the biggest problem with America was the size. Fifty states is just too much. Let's just get it over with now and divide the country into four or five smaller nations.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by D_Raay

We are at war already. A war of words. No one has had the balls to pull a trigger yet.

The words, or war of words reminds me of a headline in last Sundays Papers by George Will, the columnist who is syndicated to every major paper in the US on Sundays. He is a tool, always has been always will be......but I digress

His Sunday Headline was "liberals disparage middle America."

Like Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz, etc., Will did not serve in the military. Since he doesn't understand war or put himself in the shoes of foreign people, the invasion of Iraq is a conundrum, a puzzle for him. It is morally relative, just another political issue.

The killing of 100,000 Iraqis who have done nothing to harm the United States and the lives of our own troops make up just another issue for political campaigns.

Few will read his complicated arguments. They will get only a marketing impression from the headline, that "liberals disparage middle America." Those words are useless -- there are no "liberals" and there is no "middle America"; there is just reality.

The entire essay is typical of the United States' current intellectual class -- a class of people lost in word games, unable to see an elephant in the living room. Declaring war and invading another country can never be accepted without a very broad and deep agreement by the advanced countries and neighboring states as to the legality, the necessity, the justice of it.

Rumsfield's schtick is just that.

[D_Raay]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

The words, or war of words reminds me of a headline in last Sundays Papers by George Will, the columnist who is syndicated to every major paper in the US on Sundays. He is a tool, always has been always will be......but I digress

His Sunday Headline was "liberals disparage middle America."

Like Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz, etc., Will did not serve in the military. Since he doesn't understand war or put himself in the shoes of foreign people, the invasion of Iraq is a conundrum, a puzzle for him. It is morally relative, just another political issue.

The killing of 100,000 Iraqis who have done nothing to harm the United States and the lives of our own troops make up just another issue for political campaigns.

Few will read his complicated arguments. They will get only a marketing impression from the headline, that "liberals disparage middle America." Those words are useless -- there are no "liberals" and there is no "middle America"; there is just reality.

The entire essay is typical of the United States' current intellectual class -- a class of people lost in word games, unable to see an elephant in the living room. Declaring war and invading another country can never be accepted without a very broad and deep agreement by the advanced countries and neighboring states as to the legality, the necessity, the justice of it.

Rumsfield's schtick is just that.

George Will can suck my chubby...so to speak. And you are absolutely correct, as I was. It's all about the words, the euphemisms. The elephant has done everything but shit in the laundry machine now, I don't know what it will take to snap the public out of their collective doldrums.

[Rosie Cotton]

What the fuck?! Yeahwho, how many avatars have you had today? It's kinda freaking me out, cause it seems like this is the fourth one. Maybe I'm going crazy.

[Ace42]

His DBZ avatar was far superior.

[Rosie Cotton]

You're biased though.

[ASsman]

Should start working soon.. 15$H. Save up for a S&W 1911. Then learn to shoot the mother.

[Whois]

Originally Posted by SobaViolence

can't the US just descend into civil war already?

i'm tired of this bullshit. die America.

I know what you mean, sometimes it seem the coming civil war is going to take forever to erupt.

The great thing is though the population will go down quite a bit...thinking about that is what helps me be patient.

[Whois]

Originally Posted by ASsman

Should start working soon.. 15$H. Save up for a S&W 1911. Then learn to shoot the mother.

Colt 1911

S&W makes a nice Glock style handgun called the Sigma...I have one, it goes well with my H&K USP .40 cal.

[ASsman]

Right I know it's a Colt.. Colt .45 ACP.

"Unnoticed by York, several Germans moved forward, locating York's position. Out of sight, they counted the shots from York's rifle, establishing the pattern of his shooting. They counted a series of 5 shots from his Enfield and rushed York to gain the advantage of the few extra seconds it took to reload the rifle.

As the Germans charged, they came into easy pistol range. York brought the .45 automatic into action, stopping the patrol in its tracks. He continued shooting and advancing, killing a total of 25 German soldiers and capturing 132 by himself. York was promoted to Sergeant and awarded the Medal of Honor."

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/jpg/partup.jpg

[Whois]

http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...-1911-fs.shtml

Yummy...

[bb_bboy]

Originally Posted by D_Raay

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...towardustroopsUnbelievably, our secretary of defense has just given us the existential phrases for the Iraq (news - web sites) war: "As you know, you go to war with the Army you have ... not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

To take a quote so clearly out of context and twist it to make a point is negligent journalism. Even if a point is reasonable, using faulty or misleading methods to assert that point can diminish all credibility. However, it is both humorous and alarming that people would beleive it.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by Rosie Cotton

What the fuck?! Yeahwho, how many avatars have you had today? It's kinda freaking me out, cause it seems like this is the fourth one. Maybe I'm going crazy.

That does it, I stealing your avatar! I'm just trying to adapt to my surroundings, plus I'm a mad artist, There's plenty like me to be found
Mongrels who ain't got a penny, sniffing for tidbits like discarded avatars on the www.

Talk about Crazy....that rummy is the dope, remember this gem,

"There's another way to phrase that and that is that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. It is basically saying the same thing in a different way. Simply because you do not have evidence that something does exist does not mean that you have evidence that it doesn't exist."

and remember this CwAzY statement,

I'm not into this detail stuff. I'm more concepty.

"I don't do quagmires."

"I don't do diplomacy."

"I don't do foreign policy."

"I don't do predictions."

"I don't do numbers."

"I don't do book reviews."

or how about this craziness,

"Secretary Powell and I agree on every single issue that has ever been before this administration except for those instances where Colin's still learning."

To coin a line from the movie As Good as it Gets,

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City
"Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar,
or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey?
Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

This guy is a nut...and he makes quite an impression on our President.

[ASsman]

Originally Posted by Whois

http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...-1911-fs.shtml

Yummy...

9MM Service ModelPI9134L
Caliber: 9mm

Why would I want pussy ass 9mm ammo...


http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...9152LLarge.jpg

What a beut! I just jizzed my self.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...9109LLarge.jpg

Even sexier.

All I want for Christmas is proper handgun! A proper handgun! lalalal.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...hoto-copy2.jpg
And a safe loaded gun.

[Whois]

Originally Posted by ASsman

9MM Service ModelPI9134L
Caliber: 9mm

Why would I want pussy ass 9mm ammo...


http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...9152LLarge.jpg

What a beut! I just jizzed my self.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...9109LLarge.jpg

Even sexier.

All I want for Christmas is proper handgun! A proper handgun! lalalal.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...hoto-copy2.jpg
And a safe loaded gun.

Sorry, ignore the 9mm models...I forgot they make them (although why is beyond me).

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by ASsman

9MM Service ModelPI9134L
Caliber: 9mm

Why would I want pussy ass 9mm ammo...


http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...9152LLarge.jpg

What a beut! I just jizzed my self.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...9109LLarge.jpg

Even sexier.

All I want for Christmas is proper handgun! A proper handgun! lalalal.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...hoto-copy2.jpg
And a safe loaded gun.

Hey ASsman, Don't forget the hat + smokeholder Biatch!

[ASsman]

Comply with NATO Ammunation regulations I assume.... The reason the Military has changed over to the 9mm Beretta. Which isn't a bad gun, but it also isn't a 1911-A1 Colt .45.

And yes I need a hat, maybe a trenchcoat too.

[Whois]

Originally Posted by ASsman

Comply with NATO Ammunation regulations I assume.... The reason the Military has changed over to the 9mm Beretta. Which isn't a bad gun, but it also isn't a 1911-A1 Colt .45.

And yes I need a hat, maybe a trenchcoat too.

The're not service pistols...I don't understand people who by 9mm 1911s

[Rosie Cotton]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

That does it, I stealing your avatar! I'm just trying to adapt to my surroundings, plus I'm a mad artist, There's plenty like me to be found

Didn't say I don't like it. It's just, it seems liek everytime I look up there's a new one, and it makes me feel like I'm losing my fucking mind. Not like that's a bad thing.

[yeahwho]

Originally Posted by Rosie Cotton

Didn't say I don't like it. It's just, it seems liek everytime I look up there's a new one, and it makes me feel like I'm losing my fucking mind. Not like that's a bad thing.

I have a very hyper mind.....and I love art/graphics BIGTIME! I'm a huge packrat of paper (I own about 20,000 postcards from 1893 to 1960) and pulp fiction, sooooo, I used your avatar for an hour or two today.....but it drove me crazy to not see anything in the upper left!

I Still Love You. Peace....A mind is a terrible thing to use .
YAHOO!

[Rosie Cotton]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

I have a very hyper mind.....and I love art/graphics BIGTIME! I'm a huge packrat of paper (I own about 20,000 postcards from 1893 to 1960) and pulp fiction, sooooo, I used your avatar for an hour or two today.....but it drove me crazy to not see anything in the upper left!

I Still Love You. Peace....A mind is a terrible thing to use .
YAHOO!

I know, it bugs me not seeing anything in the upper left croner of my posts. But I'm so picky, I haven't found anything I'd want to put up there.

Love ya too!

[Ali]

Originally Posted by yeahwho

Talk about Crazy....that rummy is the dope, remember this gem,

"There's another way to phrase that and that is that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. It is basically saying the same thing in a different way. Simply because you do not have evidence that something does exist does not mean that you have evidence that it doesn't exist."

and remember this CwAzY statement,

I'm not into this detail stuff. I'm more concepty.

"I don't do quagmires."

"I don't do diplomacy."

"I don't do foreign policy."

"I don't do predictions."

"I don't do numbers."

"I don't do book reviews."

or how about this craziness,

"Secretary Powell and I agree on every single issue that has ever been before this administration except for those instances where Colin's still learning."

To coin a line from the movie As Good as it Gets,

Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City
"Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar,
or is it getaway day and your last shot at his whiskey?
Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

This guy is a nut...and he makes quite an impression on our President.

Swinging the thread back to Rummy and away from handguns

What do you know?