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Old 01-31-2008, 01:12 PM
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Question McCain Criticized for Slur

McCain says he'll keep using term for ex-captors in Vietnam
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McCain Criticized for Slur
He says he'll keep using term for ex-captors in Vietnam
C.W. Nevius, Marc Sandalow, John Wildermuth, Chronicle Political Writers
Friday, February 18, 2000

(02-18) 04:00 PST Greenville, S.C. -- Arizona Sen. John McCain refused to apologize yesterday for his use of a racial slur to condemn the North Vietnamese prison guards who tortured and held him captive during the war.

``I hate the gooks,'' McCain said yesterday in response to a question from reporters aboard his campaign bus. ``I will hate them as long as I live.''
McCain, a former Navy pilot who spent five years in a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp, was questioned about the language because of a story last month in the Nation magazine reporting his continued use of the slur.
Since then, reports of McCain's language have been circulating on Internet chat sites and e-mails among Asian Americans, many of whom find the the term offensive and inappropriate for an elected official.

McCain's appeal to voters has been as a wartime hero and a feisty politician who speaks his mind and damns the consequences. But his comments on the eve of the key South Carolina primary show the candidate's vaunted `'straight talk'' in another light.

``The use of a racist slur can't be acceptable for any national leader, regardless of his background,'' said Diane Chin, executive director of the San Francisco-based Chinese for Affirmative Action. ``For someone running for president not to recognize the power of words is a problem.''

While McCain's words may have little effect in conservative South Carolina, where few Asian Americans live, they could come back to haunt him in other states.

``Historically, straight talkers who say things off the top of their heads eventually hang themselves with those sorts of remarks,'' said Bruce Cain, a political scientist at the University of California at Berkeley.

``While it might not hurt him now, Democrats are not going to have any hesitation about using this stuff to string him up later.''

TERM FOR HIS CAPTORS


McCain made no apologies yesterday.

``I was referring to my prison guards,'' McCain said, ``and I will continue to refer to them in language that might offend some people because of the beating and torture of my friends.''

McCain made it clear that his anger extends only toward his captors. As a senator, he was one of the leaders of the postwar effort to normalize U.S. relations with Vietnam.

Campaign officials do not expect the controversy to hurt McCain, either in tomorrow's South Carolina primary or later in the campaign.

``If people understood the context, they wouldn't be upset,'' Mike Murphy, a senior adviser to the campaign, said last night.
But the racial slur used by the senator has a long, painful history that is felt by many Asian Americans.

The word ``gook'' was first used in 1899 by American soldiers fighting Filipino insurgents. During the Korean War, the term was aimed at Koreans and Chinese. It was directed at the Vietnamese when Americans were fighting in Vietnam. It is now used as a slur toward any Asian or Pacific Islander.

The Arizona senator prides himself on running an open campaign. He is surrounded by reporters, television cameras and tape recorders perhaps more than any presidential candidate in history. Reporters are given full access to the candidate between each campaign stop on a customized bus purposefully dubbed the ``Straight Talk Express.''

The bus, which also carries his top staff and often his wife, Cindy, is crammed with network anchors and local newspaper reporters, who endlessly engage McCain in what amounts to a news conference on wheels.

The comments are usually recorded and always on the record.
Sometimes the questions are pointed and serious. Sometimes they are not.

McCain has declared on his bus, ``I hate the French.'' He often begins meetings with Californians joking, ``I hate Californians,'' noting that they steal Arizona's water and lure his constituents away in the summer.

MCCAIN'S IMPRISONMENT


But those comments are clearly in jest. Yesterday's were not.
McCain was captured after his A-4 Skyhawk was shot down over Hanoi on Oct. 26, 1967. During the time he was held, he was brutally tortured by his captors, finally reaching the point where he was unable to resist signing a ``confession.''

McCain and his fellow prisoners suffered terribly in the prison camp. In the crowd at yesterday's rally in Greenville was retired Adm. Robert Fuller, who was in prison with McCain at the infamous ``Hanoi Hilton.''

Fuller, who lives in Jacksonville Beach, Fla., spoke informally of the despair of living in single cells, where the only form of contact was by an ingenious code devised by the prisoners. Fuller said prisoners were sometimes tortured for as many as six days. When they returned, he said, the others would send messages of support by tapping on the wall.

``They would be put in ropes for six days, and they would confess,'' Fuller said. ``When they came back to their cell, guys would tap on the wall, `We love you. I wish we could give you a hug.' ''

The horrors of the past cannot be an excuse for hurting people in the present, said Guy Aoki, president of the Media Action Network for Asian Americans, an anti-defamation group.

``If Sen. McCain had been captured by Nigerians, could he call those people `niggers' and think he wasn't going to offend everyone who is black?'' Akoi asked. ``We can all feel for what he went through, but if that's his level of sensitivity, I'm very disappointed.''

McCain usually treats his experience as a prisoner of war as a terrible time in his life, but a period he has moved beyond. At times, he even uses it as a punch line for jokes.

At a pancake breakfast recently, he said he had gone with his daughter to the MTV Music Awards, ``and that was the greatest assault on my senses since I was in prison.''

Yesterday's comments made it clear that McCain had neither forgotten, nor forgiven, his captors.

``I will call right now, my interrogator that tortured me, a gook,'' McCain said. ``(I can't believe that) anybody doesn't believe these interrogators and prison guards were cruel and sadistic people who deserve the worst appellations possible.''

McCain said he does not consider the comment an epithet.
``Gook,'' he said, ``is the kindest appellation I can give.''
The next U.S. president?



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Old 01-31-2008, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

wow, that is unbelievable. what a tool.

he hates "gooks", has promised "more wars", and less jobs. sadly, he's probably going to win.



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Old 01-31-2008, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

No he won't.



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Old 01-31-2008, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

i hope you're right.



The latest Rasmussen Reports survey of Election 2008 shows Republican frontrunner Senator John McCain with single-digit leads over Democratic Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. McCain now leads Clinton 48% to 40%. He leads Barack Obama 47% to 41%.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/rasmussen/20...nobama20080131


OHIO HEAD TO HEAD POLL

Edwards 47
McCain 40

Clinton 42
McCain 46

Obama 42
McCain 45


http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/p...05National.pdf


Hillary Clinton 48.0
John McCain 50.0

Barack Obama 48.0
John McCain 48.0

John Edwards 52.0
John McCain 44.0


http://www.presidentelectionpolls.co...121207001.html




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baseball is the r&b of sports

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Old 01-31-2008, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

Yeah, well, they're wrong.

Plus when people start seeing McCain and Obama debating side by side, they're going to get turned off by McCain pretty fast.



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Old 01-31-2008, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

I agree with A-Z. The pundits predicted a LOT of things this primary season, and most of it has been wrong. No one was even talking about McCain being an actual candidate as of a month ago, it was all Romney and Huckabee. Things change, and predicted numbers have been defied.

If people watch the two duke it out, they'll see who's more presidential. "Being presidential" in debates is based on two things - how well they speak, and how they look. Shallow, yes, but also true. I think both Clinton and Obama have him beaten on that one.



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Old 01-31-2008, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

I wonder if McCain's age will become a factor. I don't know how healthy he is.

Healthy enough to run, I guess, but I don't think I'd want to take on a hugely stressful job in my early seventies.



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Old 01-31-2008, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

for a normal, private individual, i'd usually let that kind of thing slide; i've never been a POW, i imagine that does things to a person's mind that i couldn't understand

but for a president, i kind of have higher standards. don't we have a diplomatic relationship with vietnam? is "i will hate the gooks as long as i live" the kind of mentality that our head of state ought to have? the answers to those questions were "yes" and "no" respectively, so i will continue to not vote for mccain
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

but this isn't according to the pundits, it's based on polling which has consistently showed, that even before mccain's big comeback, he beats obama and clinton in head-to-head match ups. except for edwards, who was the only one who beat mccain.

anyways, again, i hope you guys are right.



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Old 01-31-2008, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

Yeah, but polls can be very wrong too. The polls were off for a few states this primary season, and have been for previous elections too. Wasn't New Hampshire showing Obama would win? Then Hillary did the crying thing, and she won it. I believe Hillary was projected to win SC, too, but then Bill ran his mouth off and Obama got it by twice the amount she did. Plus, in early 2004, I remember the polls showing that Bush would win by a HUGE margin. Then Kerry pulled ahead, then they had a tug of war for a bit, then Bush squeaked by.

So, many things affect how it is in reality vs. what is projected. There's a ton more that can happen between now and the election. I wouldn't put too much faith into what they're saying now, keep your hope strong!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne Alozando Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by sazi View Post
i hope you're right.



The latest Rasmussen Reports survey of Election 2008 shows Republican frontrunner Senator John McCain with single-digit leads over Democratic Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. McCain now leads Clinton 48% to 40%. He leads Barack Obama 47% to 41%.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/rasmussen/20...nobama20080131


OHIO HEAD TO HEAD POLL

Edwards 47
McCain 40

Clinton 42
McCain 46

Obama 42
McCain 45


http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/p...05National.pdf


Hillary Clinton 48.0
John McCain 50.0

Barack Obama 48.0
John McCain 48.0

John Edwards 52.0
John McCain 44.0


http://www.presidentelectionpolls.co...121207001.html

These numbers are obsolete, I know you like Edwards, but the dates on two of your links are not current, one is 12/12/08 the other one is January 5, 2008. The Rasmussen Report is but one major polling agency, Gallup, Minn. Pr show both democratic candidates ahead of McCain if a theoretical presidential race if held today.

The shakeout from Edwards exit has not settled yet, making this one of the more exciting and fluid presidential races ever.

Tonight 8:00 PM PST the two democratic presidential front runners, a Woman will debate a Black Man for the job of President of the United States.



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Old 01-31-2008, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by yeahwho View Post
These numbers are obsolete, I know you like Edwards, but the dates on two of your links are not current, one is 12/12/08 the other one is January 5, 2008.
that's the point. all the polls show that mccain has consistently led both hillary and obama, but has been unable to top edwards.

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Originally Posted by yeahwho View Post
The Rasmussen Report is but one major polling agency, Gallup, Minn. Pr show both democratic candidates ahead of McCain if a theoretical presidential race if held today.
i'd love to see that. i'll do a google search myself. not that i'm doubting you, but rather it's encouraging news that the lesser evils are leading the greater evil in that poll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahwho View Post
The shakeout from Edwards exit has not settled yet, making this one of the more exciting and fluid presidential races ever.

Tonight 8:00 PM PST the two democratic presidential front runners, a Woman will debate a Black Man for the job of President of the United States.
that's nice, and certainly historic (as they've already debated, debates which included a mexican american, and two true progressive left-wing voices), however both of them are corporate candidates and neither are anything close to remotely resembling anything progressive, or a social democrat. i'm much more excited about a black woman, cynthia mckinney, possibly getting the nomination for the green party, and ralph nader's announcement of forming a presidential exploratory committee. nader was just on democracynow and he was upset and disappointed by edwards decision to drop out. there are many of edwards supporters (keith olbermann cited an associated press report last night that approximately 35% of them are not willing to support barack or hillary) who may turn to the green party, or ralph if he decides to run as an independent.



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Old 01-31-2008, 08:42 PM
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i'd love to see that. i'll do a google search myself. not that i'm doubting you, but rather it's encouraging news that the lesser evils are leading the greater evil in that poll.
I do a lot of candidate watching here on this site TPMElection Central, which quickly links up statistical information.



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Old 01-31-2008, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

unfortunately middle america and honestly all of america is full of redneck racist assholes who will now vote for McCain just because he made the statement.

if we didn't have a country full of hate filled xenophobes Bush wouldn't be sitting so close to the red button right now...

not even counting the racist democrats who won't vote for Barack because he's black and think he'll enact some kind of black retribution and enslave all the white people (I have actually overheard people say this...).

I really hope we as a nation can finally grow up and join the rest of the world in not judging people on their skin tone, gender, belief system, or appearence.
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Old 01-31-2008, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

That article is from 2000. Any idea whether he's still using the word today? Didn't he and John Kerry go to North Vietnam and make peace since then?

I'm ready to cut the guy all kinds of slack given what he went through, but he isn't allowed to use that word as a US Senator or President, in my opinion.
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Old 01-31-2008, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

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Originally Posted by yeahwho View Post
These numbers are obsolete, I know you like Edwards, but the dates on two of your links are not current, one is 12/12/08 the other one is January 5, 2008. The Rasmussen Report is but one major polling agency, Gallup, Minn. Pr show both democratic candidates ahead of McCain if a theoretical presidential race if held today.
Also, I remember the Zogby polls in '04 saying that Kerry topped Bush in the polls... and look what happened there.

And polls seemed to falter in this early primary season ALONE, so a whole heck of a lot can happen between now and November.



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Old 01-31-2008, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Documad View Post
That article is from 2000. Any idea whether he's still using the word today? Didn't he and John Kerry go to North Vietnam and make peace since then?

I'm ready to cut the guy all kinds of slack given what he went through, but he isn't allowed to use that word as a US Senator or President, in my opinion.
Well said and I agree. If ever given the chance I highly recommend the fascinating 1999 documentary "Return with Honor" to have a better understanding of the Vietnam POW experience.

John McCain is a bona fide US hero regardless of his crazy ass policies. He's paid some dues.



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Old 02-07-2008, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

McCain is the perfect candidate for blackmail. Hillary and her campaign are going to have a field day with McCain and the skeletons in his closet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D
FBI and the cops keep all filing
Who protest the war and who their dialing
So be careful what you say up on the internet
We got a nosey government that won't forget
Fed by mountain waters, and cooled by friendly tradewinds.

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Old 02-07-2008, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: McCain Criticized for Slur

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Originally Posted by yeahwho View Post
Well said and I agree. If ever given the chance I highly recommend the fascinating 1999 documentary "Return with Honor" to have a better understanding of the Vietnam POW experience.

John McCain is a bona fide US hero regardless of his crazy ass policies. He's paid some dues.
I re-watched that documentary a month or so ago. It's quite good.
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