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Philadelphia Debate
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Anyone see it? Last edited by RobMoney$ : 04-17-2008 at 04:59 AM. |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
I can't stand watching the debates anymore. My personal opinion is that this country cannot withstand another four years of republicans being in charge of all of the federal agencies that enforce our laws. When it comes to the courts, it's not just the supreme court, but ALL of the federal courts that are getting swamped with socially conservative republican appointments. I think we're better off when the president's party switches back and forth so that we get some balance in the courts. Both Clinton and Obama would be better than McCain, because McCain will have to come in and placate the part of his base that doesn't like or trust him. McCain will appoint very socially conservative judges and despite the lip service he pays to environmental issues, he's not going to appoint strong regulators as heads of all the federal agencies. He's going to do what Bush did and appoint corporate types to regulate their own industries.
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It also makes me sad that Hillary Clinton will likely be remembered for refusing to acknowledge when she cannot win and for going down in an ugly way instead of a classy way. I do not blame her for contesting the primaries. I blame her for the way she is doing it. She is saying things that will damage Obama in the general election. I don't think democrats should do that. She can say that she would be better than Obama, but she can never hint that McCain would be better than Obama. I don't want politicians who do that in my party. Remember when this started and the democratic candidates all stood on those debate stages and said that any of them were better than any of the republicans? I felt so much better about the party then. |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
McCain and now Hillary are saying to Americans that Obama thinks your unhappy, how in the fuck that is a news story I do not know? Unhappy? Were pretty fucking miserable to put it bluntly, our jobs are across the borders and off to China, India and Bum Fuck who knows where, the banks are being bailed out on faulty loans and we're fighting a perpetual unprovoked losing war?
The things that get harped on with with mock horror and intentional disingenuousness — Rev. Wright's comments about race, Michelle Obama's comments about being proud of her country, Barack Obama's comments about bitter white folks — they're all exactly the same observation: Somebody, somewhere, in the country might not be happy with the way the country functions. What's more, they might have a damned good reason to be dissatisfied. This isn't an unacceptable thing to suggest. It's the very foundation of democracy, and CNN, MSNBC and FOX News all know it, yet still feign incomprehension. They should fucking ashamed of themselves.
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
The ABC Debate: A Shameful Night for the U.S. Media
Greg Mitchell Posted April 16, 2008 | 10:16 PM (EST) In perhaps the most embarrassing performance by the media in a major presidential debate in years, ABC News hosts Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos focused mainly on trivial issues as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama faced off in Philadelphia. They, and their network, should hang their collective heads in shame. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the health care and mortgage crises, the overall state of the economy and dozens of other pressing issues had to wait for their few moments in the sun as Obama was pressed to explain his recent "bitter" gaffe and relationship with Rev. Wright (seemingly a dead issue) and not wearing a flag pin -- while Clinton had to answer again for her Bosnia trip exaggerations. Then it was back to Obama to defend his slim association with a former '60s radical -- a question that came out of right-wing talk radio and Sean Hannity on TV, but was delivered by former Bill Clinton aide Stephanopoulos. This approach led to a claim that Clinton's husband pardoned two other '60s radicals. And so on. The travesty continued. More time was spent on all of this than segments on getting out of Iraq and keeping people from losing their homes and -- you name it. Gibson only got excited complaining that someone might raise his capital gains tax. Yet neither candidate had the courage to ask the moderators to turn to those far more important issues. Talking heads on other networks followed up by not pressing that point either. The crowd booed Gibson near the end. Why didn't every other responsible journalist on TV? link In Pa. Debate, The Clear Loser Is ABC By Tom Shales Thursday, April 17, 2008; Page C01 When Barack Obama met Hillary Clinton for another televised Democratic candidates' debate last night, it was more than a step forward in the 2008 presidential election. It was another step downward for network news -- in particular ABC News, which hosted the debate from Philadelphia and whose usually dependable anchors, Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos, turned in shoddy, despicable performances. For the first 52 minutes of the two-hour, commercial-crammed show, Gibson and Stephanopoulos dwelled entirely on specious and gossipy trivia that already has been hashed and rehashed, in the hope of getting the candidates to claw at one another over disputes that are no longer news. Some were barely news to begin with. The boyish Stephanopoulos, who has done wonders with the network's Sunday morning hour, "This Week" (as, indeed, has Gibson with the nightly "World News"), looked like an overly ambitious intern helping out at a subcommittee hearing, digging through notes for something smart-alecky and slimy. He came up with such tired tripe as a charge that Obama once associated with a nutty bomb-throwing anarchist. That was "40 years ago, when I was 8 years old," Obama said with exasperation. Obama was right on the money when he complained about the campaign being bogged down in media-driven inanities and obsessiveness over any misstatement a candidate might make along the way, whether in a speech or while being eavesdropped upon by the opposition. The tactic has been to "take one statement and beat it to death," he said. No sooner was that said than Gibson brought up, yet again, the controversial ravings of the pastor at a church attended by Obama. "Charlie, I've discussed this," he said, and indeed he has, ad infinitum. If he tried to avoid repeating himself when clarifying his position, the networks would accuse him of changing his story, or changing his tune, or some other baloney. link Visitors to ABC's site weren't much kinder. Here's a sampling on page 1: ...This is AWFUL. Thank goodness for Jon Stewart and Comedy Central. He does a better job of interviewing and asking relevant questions of his guests in 5 minutes than these 2 yahoos have in more than an hour. ABC should be ashamed. George should be ashamed. Charlie should be ashamed. This isn't a debate. This is a hit job. ...Asinine questions - abysmal debate. Fire these silly moderators NOW. They insult the intelligence of the American people. ...I haven't watched ABC "news" in a few years. I see I haven't been missing much! MORE THAN half the debate turned over to Bittergate, Rev Wright, the Weathermen, Tuzla, FLAG LAPEL PINS? Most of the televised debates I've seen this campaign season have been lame, but this one takes the prize. Either you guys are morons or you think that we are. Either way, I'm glad to have seen the last of you. Really, really bad.No winners in this debate, but a definite loser: ABC "NEWS" ...This is the WORST debate I have ever watched. Never in my life have I been more disenchanted with the news media as a whole, especially a news organization such as ABC that I believed to have some sense of purpose to bring substantive information and perspective to the American people. Americans are tired of the snipping between the candidates and the lack of discussion about what each candidate will do to help the country. ABC News should be ashamed for presenting such a failure of a debate. ...Are you kidding me? "We don't have much time left. Let's have a MINUTE to talk about gas?" Charlie and George, you need a crash course on the distinction between "issues" and an "agendas." Hint: The candidates have the former; you have the latter. ...ABC News . . you should be ashamed of this debate. Where did you get these questions?? Where are the ISSUES. We have heard enough about Rev Wright and what Hillary did or didn't do in Bosnia. Let's hear about issues that matter such as the cost of Health Care, the war in Iraq, the Energy Crisi, the Crisis in Our Schools, and THE ECONOMY, STUPID!! ...Geoirge and Charlie= narcissistic elite "journalists" trying to score a rating point, but asking questions that would yield a "F" in middle school journalism. This debate may be used for years in journalism classes, on how to not run a debate. Disney-who owns ABC- get better cartoon characters to run a debate. Elmer Fudd would do much better. ...Has ABC News noticed that your so called "debate" has been universally panned? Charles Gibson is a pandering person more fit for the National Enquirer than a responsible news program. Stephanopoulis is barely better. I am so disappointed but not surprised. link |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
I have to wonder if the floundering was an act, just to keep drawing ridiculous questions so it would wind up backfiring later...
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
That was absolutely horrendous to watch...
Trivial wastes of airtime punctuated by inane "issue" questions that in no way resemble the real concerns of American voters. It is becoming clear the media is in collusion to distract us with non-issues.
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
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link go to around the 8:50 mark on that video. |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
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I would say that may be true about the first half or so of the debate, but the second half was all about the issues. Iraq, Taxes/Economy, Gun Control in Inner Cities v. Right to bear Arms, Affirmative Action, Gas Prices. Obama looked amatuer-ish at best on all of the above while Hillary knocked every question out of the park. |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
I understand but how many actually kept watching after the first half?
Furthermore, I think Mr. Obama understandedly was a little annoyed at that point.
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
Okay, so I decided to watch. I'm about halfway through. The articles are correct. The first half is a disaster for ABC News. I just heard the question about why Obama doesn't wear the flag pin. WHO THE FUCK CARES? The "real people" who are asking questions are an embarrassment. If Clinton was smart, when it was her turn to talk, she would have been the one to say "let's talk about the real issues -- of course Obama is a patriotic citizen."
I used to like Charlie Gibson on GMA -- that's where he belongs. And Stephanopolous is like a little kid trying to pretend that he's a reporter. Remember when we had real reporters on network TV? None of them would have participated in this fox-news-style debate. Well, on to the second half and the promised questions of substance . . . . |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate: www.illdoctrine.com
Heard illdoctrine's retort?
It's funny 'cause it's true...
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
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HUGELY unprofessional to allow him to moderate this.
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
I saw the clips on The Daily Show of Gibson saying: "Pledge right now that if you were the winner, would you choose the other to be your running mate and vice versa."
I'm sorry, but that's a complete waste of airtime. |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
I agree. Why let a former Clinton administration official moderate the debate featuring his president's wife? We may as well have had Bush Sr. moderate the Bush-Kerry debates.
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
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I think a lot of people care to be honest. Of the people I've talked to in the past day since the debate, most of those people were making their choice on things like why Obama doesn't wear the red, white, and blue, and Rev. Wright. One person told me flat out that Obama had his vote until 2 days ago when he heard one of the talking heads on TV (I forget which one) question Obama's love for America and why he doesn't wear the Red, White, and Blue. I'll also add that this person is retired military with over 30 years and was a Vietnam POW. Let Obama and his supporters keep thinking people don't care about these type of issues and it will wind up singlehandedly costing him the race. |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
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I won't throw in the towel yet though. We're still in the democratic primaries and the democrats who get excited about caucuses and primaries tend to be self-destructive idiots. My dad was a veteran and a republican and he was never a dumbass. He was a very smart guy. |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
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Unfortunately, the debates have become complete wastes of time that drive people AWAY from voting. At this point, I'll vote for either Obama or Clinton, but I still need to hear more about the issues to get inspired. Having a black or female president should have happened long ago, but once that novelty wears off, what's the plan? How do we stop the country from circling the drain?
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
....native american president?
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
^haha. elect the best candidate regardless of race/sex/species?
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
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My position is that although these types of issues are unimportant to a lot of people here, I believe that a majority of the American voting population are idiots who'll make their decisions based solely on things like Obama's pastor, his religion, or him not wearing a flag pin. If it winds up being the things that cost him the race than obviously they were important enough. Quote:
I'm just not impressed with speeches or who's the smoothest talker, I'm more interested in who's got the better plan. I just think once you get past race, gender, and the smooth talk, Obama's ideas are suspect at best. The Emperor has no clothes. |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
And with debates like this and the media's coverage of Obama, especially of late, no one will ever know just what those ideas are.
Now lapel pins or middle names or who he has some association with... It's shameful really. Why don't we just broadcast debates on the set of American Idol and get it over with.
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
Here's an article about his ideas on taxes:
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
Their positions on Iraq:
Clinton was asked a question from a citizen regarding whether the candidates have a real plan to get us out of iraq, or is it just propaganda? Says it just seems like all talk due to what goes on on the ground. Clinton committed to her plan, no matter what, she says her troops are coming home. She says the military is civillian controlled, advice given, the President exercises his discretion. She's convinced that it's in america's best interest, military interest, and iraq interest, to leave iraq. She wants to bring everyone together to bring a plan about to bring people out. Says Iraqi's will no longer have a blank check. Now she's saying that only through a committment to withdrawl will Iraqi's do what they need to do to take power. Diplomatic efforts in the region will be made. She's convinced and clear that she'll begin to withdraw troops in 60 days. Followup question asking if she knows better than General Patreaus, she answers "No", that us staying in Iraq is rough and that there's no way for us to maintain a strong position in the world while in Iraq. There's no doubt that Afghanistan has been neglected. Bottom line: We don't know what will happen if we withdraw, we do know what'll happen if we stay mired in Iraq. Military stretched thin, long deployments, we won't be able to reassert leadership and moral authority in the world. Obama, same question. Plouffe said 16 months at the most. Obama says that the Commander in Chief sets the mission, that's not the role of the Generals. The president latley has been taking cues from Patreaus, the President sets mission, troops carry out mission. Civilian leadership has set a bad mission, but it's time for us to set a strategy to make the American people safer. He says he will always listen to the generals on how to carry out a mission, but he says that if they come to him to change tactics, he says he'll listen to them. Anti-american sentiment grows, al qaeda's strength increases, strategic reserve not free to deal with worldwide problems, wants to change national security priority. Obama just seems out of his league talking about military missions and foreign policy. You'll just change the mission? Fine, HOW? Obama will set the "withdrawl" mission. The Generals will arrange the tactical withdrawal. OK, Generals set up the withdrawal procedure. How is he then guaranteeing the timeline without talking to the Generals first? Last edited by RobMoney$ : 04-19-2008 at 10:29 AM. |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
Why doesn't Hillary Clinton just invite John McCain down to the debate, sit beside her and share the mic with during the debates? I mean WTF already? The two of them are currently running against Obama they might as well share the podium since they love to share the same criticisms.
Hillary is annoying the American people now. Is her goal to now wear out Obama so he never gets a breather before the real campaign begins? I just don't get it. Another Clinton loyalist super-delegate cross sides last night to campaign with Obama. This is ridiculous. Go campaign with McCain or just knock it off bitch, fuck he isn't running around ripping your race, religion and creed. He isn't even concerned about calling you an elitist with your $109 million dollar tax statement. I don't even begin to understand. She is losing this race by all indicators, not in a big way, but it certainly is an ugly, ugly, ugly way.
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
Gas prices?
Clinton 1) She wants to investigate gas prices. Believes there's market manipulation going on. 2) Quit putting oil into strategic reserve 3) Any gas tax moratorium like being advised, she'd like to see us have a windfall profits tax on the oil companies that pay for what we lose. Long term energy strategy is needed. Obama: Says clinton outlines are simliar to mine. Investigate manipulation, call for a windfall profits tax, invest in renewable energies, raise efficiency standards on cars, reduce prices by reducing demand. We have to get serious about increasing standards. I just want to know exactly what "Windfall Profits" are. How are they distinguished from "Normal" profits? If there's no way to account for them, how do you regulate them? It seems like that's part of business cycles just like large unexpected losses. |
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
Obama Wins Vast Majority Of Pennsylvania Newspaper Endorsements
The Philadelphia Inquirer Citizen's Voice The Scranton Times-Tribune The Allentown Morning Call The Patriot News Bucks County Courier Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Philadelphia Daily News With one paper endorsing Hillary Clinton, the Daily Pennsylvanian Obama Pulling Away From Clinton Nationally, currently a full 19% ahead of her. For what its worth ......
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#30
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Re: Philadelphia Debate
Hey Rob, where are you getting your information from? I think it's at least fair that we know where it's coming from.
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