#1
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FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
This is a shitty day for politics. Even shittier that Obama voted the same with EVERY Republican senator. He could have been in there with Feingold to stop it, but he didn't.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/07/07/10244/ Quote:
Last edited by DroppinScience : 07-09-2008 at 07:13 PM. |
#2
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
another sad day in american history.
fuck this shit. and fuck obama |
#3
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
More commentary from Glenn Greenwald on this, which highlights even the most hardcore of Obama supporters pissed off at this.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/07/09/10243/ Quote:
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
I can't help but be annoyed by people who openly supported Obama who are already criticizing his decisions.
If you supported Obama you really have no one to blame but yourselves. The second coming of JFK my ass. |
#5
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
Weather up here in Seattle is great, 70 degrees and just the lightest breeze. What a summer we're having here so far.
I've got no complaints, life is beautiful.
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#6
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
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I will for once in my life give Clinton credit for voting against it, but even then I question her motives (after all, had she been the nominee, would she have done the same thing as Obama? One can only speculate). And the idea of JFK was a big myth anyways, so quit it mang. |
#7
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
You mean openly SUPPORT him, not openly supportED. No one here has given up their support of him, so there's no need for the past tense.
I don't agree with the FISA decision. Luckily, most Democrats don't have the "You're either with him or against him" idea (where have we heard that one before?), so you can have mixed feelings about a candidate or their decisions while still supporting them in their run for president. I don't agree with everything Bill Clinton said or did in his Presidency, but overall, I think he was a kick-ass president. Same with Obama. I may not agree with everything he says or does, but I do like him. My opinion of him has gone down since this vote, but I still agree with majority of his other ideas. I certainly hope he has enough common sense to stick with those during the rest of the season and into his presidency.
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#8
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
It's a matter of counting the votes, the majority voted yea, including democratic Senator Casey from Pennsylvania. Our two senators from my state up here in Washington, voted nea.
The F.I.S.A. bill passed 69 to 28 in the Senate, Obama is not going to look weak on National Security. It's fucked up but it's like Wright said, this is what politicians do. From NYTimes Ed/Op today Gail Collins, Think back. Why, exactly, did you prefer Obama over Hillary Clinton in the first place? Their policies were almost identical — except his health care proposal was more conservative. You liked Barack because you thought he could get us past the old brain-dead politics, right? He talked — and talked and talked — about how there were going to be no more red states and blue states, how he was going to bring Americans together, including Republicans and Democrats. Exactly where did everybody think this gathering was going to take place? Left field? When an extremely intelligent politician tells you over and over and over that he is tired of the take-no-prisoners politics of the last several decades, that he is going to get things done and build a “new consensus,” he is trying to explain that he is all about compromise. Even if he says it in that great Baracky way.
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#9
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
I was never a fan of the first coming of JFK.
I just want Obama to get elected. I suspect that this vote will help it happen but I do worry. The last two democratic candidates played it safe -- played to the middle -- and they both lost. I can't imagine that I will give him any money. Maybe that will change but I throw the mail away without opening it. I gave a lot of money to Kerry (a lot of money to me). I saw a guy selling Obama signs today in a poorer urban neighborhood. They weren't real Obama signs but they looked good. I thought it was cool. It made me smile to see the enterprising attitude. It's good advertising and what does Obama care if they signs aren't really from his campaign? |
#10
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
It is one thing for a presumptive nominee to adjust policy positions to reach out to constituencies he wants to bring in to his coalition which were not part of his primary victory. We have seen Obama do that with evangelicals, for example. Warrantless wiretapping has no constituency. There is no sector of the American population that just might jump off the fence and get behind Obama if he only agrees to give telecommunications corporations retroactive immunity for illegally collaborating with the Bush administration’s spying. He is not courting votes here. Either he is caving in to pressure from the giant telecom corporations, or he has really bought into the idea that American actually needs warrantless wiretapping. Either option is equally unpalatable to many activists.
Throughout the primaries, one of the big criticisms of Obama was that when it came to votes, he backed off. Thus all those “present” votes in Illinois. But the campaign came up with what seemed like a plausible explanation for all that, and many Obama supporters decided he deserved a pass on that. Well, here we are, the first big vote Obama faces on the national and international stage, and guess what? He is backing off. Not good. Yet there has been very little talk of not voting for Obama. What there has been is a pronounced change of tone, which may hold real implications for the rest of the campaign. Obama rode to the nomination in large part on the backs of… well, of people like me. Senator Obama, you can tap my phone or my wallet, but not both.
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#11
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
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#12
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
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Trust me, I'm not enjoying having to make "I told you so" posts already about Obama. It's depressing actually. The only positive thing I can hope for at this point is that Obama does for the liberals what GW did for the Republicans, he screws this country up so bad that middle America will turn a deaf ear to everything the left and right have to say. You're starting to make a habit out of saying that already. |
#13
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
Only in response to you repeating how you hate when Obama supporters criticize his policies, so I think it needs to also be repeated that you can criticize the candidate while still agreeing with majority of what he stands for.
I don't agree with his ties to Wal-Mart, or this FISA thing. Do I agree with his stance against off-shore drilling? Yes. Creating more green-collar jobs and introducing renewable energy? Yes. A woman's right to choose? Yes. His pulling out troops in a timely fashion so we won't be there for the next hundred years? Yes. His wanting to tax the wealthy and rolling back the Bush tax cuts? Yes. His stance on gun control and limitations he has on assault weapons and such? Yes. These are the issues most important to me, and I agree with what he has to say on those positions. Therefore, he has my support.
Last edited by QueenAdrock : 07-10-2008 at 10:33 AM. |
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
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And I agree with D_Raay, where's the constituency he's reaching out to on voting for this bill? I don't think people who were previously committed to McCain will now jump ship and go for Obama based on this action. It's only a cave-in to special interests and telecoms. |
#15
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
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i particularly enjoy the fact that you "have to" make them. that must be hard for you, you're clearly very reluctant to do it, but no! it must be done Last edited by Bob : 07-10-2008 at 05:14 PM. |
#16
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
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because just like hillary, obama is a moderate, centrist democrat. |
#17
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
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Shut it, Obama-ton |
#18
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
heyyyy you can't use that against me, i gave you that!
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#19
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
one can justify just about anything to his or her self. you can twist logic and reality to support your own beliefs- we all do it everyday.
reality is, obama is already showing signs of weakness. he is already acting to protect corporrate interests. he is already acting to to further imfringe on american rights and privacies. how is this guy about change? how illusory a statement and platform he handles. Its simple. A candidate for the people would only protect the people. A candidate for the corporations would only protect the corporations. America has become a war mongering, bullying nation which propels itself on the idea that its citizens are freer and have a better life than anyone else on the planet (patriotism/nationalism). America is nothing more than a corporate entity banking of its own population and the suffering of peoples across the world. Dont fool yourself, this country is not headed for change. |
#20
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
its funny to travel outside the country and see how other people feel about our beloved country. we are a huge fucking joke.
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#21
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
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#22
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
nader has balls. ron paul has balls. cynthia mckinney has balls. we need a real candidate. one that has balls.
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
Whats funny is you will never find one... and if you do, im sure he will be sleeping with hookers, and no no no, we cant have that!
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
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Also, everybody I talk to seems to be rooting for Obama. |
#25
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
exactly, they think we are a joke. not just because of the flag. because of the iraq war, 9-11, and because of our past history of lies, broken promises and exploitation. and also because americans carry this pride with them wherever they go, that they are american, and they are entitled.
my point is, it is bred into americans to feel pride. as most governments try to instill into their people and their system. it helps keep it all moving in their favor. proud to be an american!? many people i have talked to in europe, australia and south america are aware of our shortcomings, mistakes, blunders and ignorance. just speaking from my own personal experience. most people outside the us are rooting for barack, but only because the media has painted him as a true "changer" of america. he might as well be a rich white man. he stands for nothing new. |
#26
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
Quote:
But honestly, think about it. What if the Japanese went around yelling "Japan rules! We're awesome! We're the best country in the entire world!"? Then maybe Americans could understand how goddamn annoying it is to hear another country constantly be acting superior to people. You don't hear any other country's people go around screaming about how great they are, and there's a lot of amazing countries out there that have been rated much higher than the US in terms of living conditions, health care, overall happiness of the people, etc. They just stay quiet about it because they realize it's annoying to act cocky and superior to others. I love America, but goddamn it, the blinded "America's the greatest since sliced bread" people are really making everyone look bad overseas.
Last edited by QueenAdrock : 07-12-2008 at 11:56 AM. |
#27
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
lewis black on broadway talking about how america isn't #1
bill maher: stop saying we're #1, and start acting like it |
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
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#30
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Re: FISA Bill Passes, and Amendments to Strip Telecoms of Immunity Rejected
doesn't this just make you just want to cut Obama's nuts off?
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