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Old 03-04-2012, 02:31 PM
matttpotter matttpotter is offline
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Default Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

Hey everyone, long time bboy fan, apologies if this has been discussed before..but I've always been fascinated with the unreleased license to Ill era tracks, or better yet the alleged "White House" tracks. (whatever they were) My guess is Desperado would have been one of them. I love "Scenario" and "I'm Down" because they have a much more polished final mix on the versions that are out there. But Desperado, that little clip we hear of it in the RUN DMC movie? That totally mixed and polished version? That's got to be a playback right? They are not actually performing live in that scene are they? Regardless it's Awesome! I fucking love that track. Unfortunately the only full version of that song as we all know is just a rough unmixed version. Some of the versions of it you can actually hear Rick Rubin say its a rough playback track before it starts. I'm curious where that track originated from? I see it packaged with boots of original ill sometimes, but I don't believe the original, original Ill (heh) had that track on it. Some bootlegger added it later. The very first time I ever found that "full version" was back in the days of napster when it was at its peak. When you could find ANYTHING, (pretty much where Grooveshark is now.) anyways, I'm wondering if anyone knows what the origin boot of desperado is and what other Tracks were on that boot?

The whole reason I bore you with this is a for a request of sorts. I am not musically talented at all, but I have seen some amazing things people have pulled of with music software these days especially with remixing songs, cutting them up adding effects and layers that I never would have imagined possible. I wish I had audio skills like some of you lucky talented fuckers out there.

What I was hoping was that someone that has the audio chops, (since it does not look like the bboys are ever going to release this song) can reconstruct a mix using that playback track to sound more like the polished version from Tougher Than Leather. Maybe someone already has...if so I've never heard it. I wish to god they would have included it on the soundtrack. But sadly, just like Pump Up The Volume with Scenario they did not. We just get teased with that little bit in the movie. Its almost infuriating to listen to because it sounds so god damned cool!! And painfully talked over in parts with dialogue from the film.

What I love about this song is it is just soooo Beastie Boys of that era, I know they moved on and matured past that sound. But I can't help that a huge piece of me does not love that version of the Beastie Boys. I remember when Paul's b came out and a lot of people were disappointed because it was not a lic to Ill 2. (don't get me wrong, I fucking loved Paul's and it's by far my favorite album) but I got to say, just to be honest, not to be an asshole or disrespect the beastie boys in any way... I was stoked on the idea of an unauthorized White House album potentially coming out...simply because I knew that, that version of the Beasties Boys was dead and it would be cool to hear some new tracks from that era of Beastie Boys. I think that, that song is the last of its kind in a way. At least that we know of. If anyone out there has the ability to complete the last bread crumb of that era, I'm sure I would not be the only one stoked about it. You would be the fucking king in my book.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:53 AM
Sir SkratchaLot Sir SkratchaLot is offline
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The full version came from a guy who used to work at American recordings. I bought some Beastie Boys records from a guy off eBay in the late 90s, we got to e-mailing and he menitoned he had a friend who worked at American Recordings who had pulled the desperado rough mix "for playback purposes" off the master tape. The guy dubbed it for me along with the tail end of an "extended cut" of Possie in Effect (that has Adrock just talking shit over the beat at the end) which, apparently, came off the same source tape. According to him that was all that was ever on the tape. There were a handful of people from the boards I made copies of Desperado for, asked them to keep it on the DL, and they immediately started bootlegging it on eBay, and claimed they "found" it. I never leaked the Possie in Effect thing, and probably never will.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:23 AM
ClarenceAlabama ClarenceAlabama is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot View Post
The full version came from a guy who used to work at American recordings. I bought some Beastie Boys records from a guy off eBay in the late 90s, we got to e-mailing and he menitoned he had a friend who worked at American Recordings who had pulled the desperado rough mix "for playback purposes" off the master tape. The guy dubbed it for me along with the tail end of an "extended cut" of Possie in Effect (that has Adrock just talking shit over the beat at the end) which, apparently, came off the same source tape. According to him that was all that was ever on the tape. There were a handful of people from the boards I made copies of Desperado for, asked them to keep it on the DL, and they immediately started bootlegging it on eBay, and claimed they "found" it. I never leaked the Possie in Effect thing, and probably never will.
I honestly don't understand this mindset. Why would you keep something on the DL? It's like a big F. U. to all the Beastie Boys fans. If you have something special that Beastie Boys fans would love, why not share it with other Beastie Boys fans. I wish the Beastie fans were like the old Grateful Dead fans who made their own community and shared everything with each other.

Most people on this board are long term fans who would love to hear some Beastie Boys history.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:29 PM
cj hood cj hood is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

i remember getting a copy in the 90s, but i thought Gwedo King hooked me up...



thank you Adam.

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Old 03-05-2012, 12:53 PM
Sir SkratchaLot Sir SkratchaLot is offline
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Originally Posted by ClarenceAlabama View Post
I honestly don't understand this mindset. Why would you keep something on the DL? It's like a big F. U. to all the Beastie Boys fans. If you have something special that Beastie Boys fans would love, why not share it with other Beastie Boys fans. I wish the Beastie fans were like the old Grateful Dead fans who made their own community and shared everything with each other.

Most people on this board are long term fans who would love to hear some Beastie Boys history.
Because I was asked to by the guy who gave it to me.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:55 PM
Sir SkratchaLot Sir SkratchaLot is offline
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Originally Posted by cj hood View Post
i remember getting a copy in the 90s, but i thought Gwedo King hooked me up...
He got it from me.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot View Post
Because I was asked to by the guy who gave it to me.
It's been long enough...you ought to let the Posse track leak. Does the guy who gave it to you still even work there?



Thank You Adam Yauch

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Old 03-06-2012, 07:15 PM
matttpotter matttpotter is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

Wow! Dude thank you for the answer. That was pretty awesome. I totally understand you sitting on it to avoid bootleggers grabbing it and making bullshit money off it. I can not tell you how annoyed I get with WEEN shit I have had in the past that, that exact thing has happened with. You have to be careful.

It really makes me wonder though WHAT is out there still you know? I mean it was QUITE a while before the Pauls Demos leaked. If I had gotten ahold of those back in the day? Like when my fandom for those guys was at its peak? I would have exploded. It was truly amazing to hear when I finally did get my greedy mits on it.

I've wondered how much pauls shit there is that we have not even begun to hear...and probably won't till they are dead. I have a friend who has a copy of the Dr Strangelove ending and the original Shining ending. He has been sitting on that shit for years too. The sheer nuts and will power of that...

...and wow! talk about having a Beastie Boy holy grail and keeping it close like that...I got to say my hat is off to you man. Pissed at you beyond belief! But it makes me respect the fuck out of you, you lucky fucker...respect. And respect on the ground working getting it. I know how hard that can be too.

Any idea on the history of the Pauls Demos? Where they came from and how complete they are? (Apologies again if this has already been discussed.)
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:44 PM
Micodin Micodin is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

Ugh.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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Originally Posted by Laver1969 View Post
It's been long enough...you ought to let the Posse track leak. Does the guy who gave it to you still even work there?
I've got the perfect place for it, will give full credit (or not) if you like..

http://www.beastiemixes.com/rare.php



www.Beastiemixes.com
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

BS

Tell u what, rip a 5 second sample of this "talking shit" and blow your nose over it if you want before uploading a stream for us to hear, then we can judge before calling total BS which is what I'm calling anyway. And even if u do really have this extended cut I'm still calling BS because really that's all it is......I could rip splice and edit snippets from 100 different interviews and put them over a low-fi scratchy PIE track and nobody would ever no the difference.

This is fuckng stupid, right keep that shit locked down for another 28 years until we are all in our late-sixties because that would be so cool to bust out in the retirement home in the off chance another old fucker actually remembers or even gives a shit about the Beasties let alone even remembering their own name.

...and we're supposed to be the mature reasonable ones with all the kiddies around.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:23 AM
bigfatlove06 bigfatlove06 is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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BS

I could rip splice and edit snippets from 100 different interviews and put them over a low-fi scratchy PIE track and nobody would ever no the difference.
Yes, someone would know the difference. Particularly, someone who sourced the track 13 years ago (late 90's). I don't know if your basic premise is that SS created the track himself and is trying to pull the wool over our eyes, but if such is the case sorry, it has been around in it's unaltered form for at least 10 years. Is it more likely that SSALOT is trying to claim credit for unwillingly disseminating a track over a decade ago, or just answering a question posed by someone on the boards. Clearly the latter.

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Old 03-08-2012, 06:29 AM
Sir SkratchaLot Sir SkratchaLot is offline
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Huh. I just see it as keeping my word to the dude I got it from. I still feel bad about the whole thing went down with Desperado. In any event, why should I be putting out this stuff that I have absolutely no ownership of and no persmission from the owners?

On the other hand, it's been 10 years and the Beasties don't really seem to care.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:05 AM
ClarenceAlabama ClarenceAlabama is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot View Post
Huh. I just see it as keeping my word to the dude I got it from. I still feel bad about the whole thing went down with Desperado. In any event, why should I be putting out this stuff that I have absolutely no ownership of and no persmission from the owners?

On the other hand, it's been 10 years and the Beasties don't really seem to care.
Exactly! It's been over 10 years and the Beasties don't really care about sharing between fans. If you were selling bootlegs, that would be a different story.

I say, just put it up on Beastiemixes.com and let the fans hear it. The Beastie Boys themselves know about that site and don't have a problem with it.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:27 PM
FLO MASTER FLO MASTER is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot View Post
He got it from me.

but as a i recall, i bought it from you on EBAY. I paid somethin like $70 for it. i know you said others sold it ebay and you were mad at them but you did the same thing yourself. I didnt sell it on ebay, i merely resold it on the old beastie ng for a mere $7 a pop, to cover the cost of the cassette and s&h.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

Sir SkratchaLot, I don't know all the particulars, but respect for keeping your word for so long. I've been trusted with Beastie goodies over the years, and if I had betrayed people I'm sure the goodies would have stopped coming my way long ago.

I will say though, it HAS been a looong time..

Decision is yours, offer still stands..


Quote:
The Beastie Boys themselves know about that site and don't have a problem with it.
What'choo talkin' bout Willis? You have some inside scoop I'd love to hear about?



www.Beastiemixes.com
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:21 AM
FLO MASTER FLO MASTER is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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Sir SkratchaLot, I don't know all the particulars, but respect for keeping your word for so long. I've been trusted with Beastie goodies over the years, and if I had betrayed people I'm sure the goodies would have stopped coming my way long ago.

I will say though, it HAS been a looong time..

Decision is yours, offer still stands..




What'choo talkin' bout Willis? You have some inside scoop I'd love to hear about?

how did he keep his word? he sold it on ebay back in 1999.
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Old 03-09-2012, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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how did he keep his word? he sold it on ebay back in 1999.
We're talking about some mystery Posse track that he supposedly has...and hasn't leaked/shared.



Thank You Adam Yauch

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Old 03-09-2012, 07:58 AM
Sir SkratchaLot Sir SkratchaLot is offline
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but as a i recall, i bought it from you on EBAY. I paid somethin like $70 for it. i know you said others sold it ebay and you were mad at them but you did the same thing yourself. I didnt sell it on ebay, i merely resold it on the old beastie ng for a mere $7 a pop, to cover the cost of the cassette and s&h.
That's partially correct but it's got the Kenny Temprano judge judy spin on it.

The way the whole thing went down is that I sold a sealed mint copy of MCA and Burzootie on eBay and I threw in a mixtape called "Theories of the Boom Bip" as a freebee. That tape had Deperado on the b-side along with some other rare tracks. Importantly, I previously sold a handful of sealed MCA and Burzootie 12s without the tape and the LEAST I got was $60. Anyway, naively, I threw in the tape thinking if somebody is THAT into the Beasties it would be cool to throw a DJ mix with some rare tracks in. I assumed that anybody even looking for that record would be a huge fan and that's exactly who I was trying to get the rarer tracks to.

Now, had you just bought that record and bootlegged the joint I couldn't complain. It was dumb of me to assume some happy fan would who bought the record would be like "cool tape" and not start up the bootlegging press. BUT HERE'S THE THING, you and I e-mailed about the whole situation. I told you where it came from, that the source was cool with trading it amongst fans but didn't want it sold outright or up on Napster and you said "it is very interesting that you have asked me to keep this to myself. i will. i assure you." Then you immediately put it on eBay and started selling it outright for profit.

None of the other 10 or so people from the boards (Dustin, Princess G, etc.) who I mailed the track to tried to sell it. Anybody who offered to buy the track from me got denied and I was trading it with the hardcore fans for stuff like DJ mixes and other unreleased demos.

The thing is, luckily, that whole poisonous bootleg environment is pretty much dead now, which is maybe one more reason to youtube the possie in effect thing. Anyway, I guess it's my fault more than Kenny's. I mean, seriously, when you take the word of guy who goes by "gwedo king", that's on you, right?
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:11 AM
FLO MASTER FLO MASTER is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

I just sold it to a few members, to make my money back. I wasnt the one who leaked it onto napster. I didnt even know napster was in existence.

why wouldnt anyone not trust me? afterall, my doc was the beastie boys doc.

i had a few raw deals on the site. sent some punk from baldwin a 12" of so wacha want and he never responded with his part of the bargain. now, thats someone not to trust!
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:31 AM
matttpotter matttpotter is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

Hey guys apologies, I did not mean to start a finger pointing parade. Regardless of who made what off it in the past, personally I'm grateful it got out. Because it might be the only copy that even exists anymore. It's quite possible that if you had not done the leg work and got that copy that I and millions of others would still to this day only have heard that bit from the Tougher Than Leather movie.

Honestly I think it's kind crazy to think that the dude who gave/sold it to you originally did not do the same with anyone else...but in the end... Who cares? What's done is done, and if you are the reason why I got to hear a full version of that song? Personally I thank you for it. I could care less about the posse in effect track honestly. Desperado is what I was and am still interested in hearing a better version. But any version at all at one point was an incredible find and again if it indeed was because of you...thank you very much. How often does one get to thank some one else for something like that? Again If it was because of you I really am grateful. As all these other fucks are.

So ANYWAY....

Anybody got the remix skills to create something close to the tougher than leather version?

First off, the missing pieces broken down. Is that actually Clint Eastwoods voice being sampled saying desperado? I can't quite make it out. Also the "woah woah woah" background vocals. Is that the exact same as the ones used in posse in effect? Just sped up a bit? Then the Good and The Bad and The Ugly theme. It has this scratching on it that is very Rick Rubin Time To Get I'll sounding. Does anyone know how to do that? That scratch sound is like no other, it's so bad ass. It's why I love
Paul Revere so much.

Sorry to beat dead horse on this, but the conversation was getting way of course. I'm an idiot when it come to creating music, I guess I'm wondering If anyone knows if it's even a possible feat?

Last edited by matttpotter : 03-09-2012 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:49 AM
Micodin Micodin is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

To do it correctly one would need all the vocal stems to mix onto the beat they have created/duplicated.

Making the beat and scratching is the less difficult part. But, to make it spot on would take some time and not an easy task by any means.

Without clean sounding accapellas I see your dream remix a dead end.

Sorry, Sport.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:45 PM
Sir SkratchaLot Sir SkratchaLot is offline
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The good thing about that mix is that it's just a beat and acapella. That means adding samples is pretty easy. They'll multi-track in with the raw mix fine. The bad thing is that the quality on the raw mix is rough, and it was dubbed off 1/4" tape onto cassette without any attempt to bring the headroom to normal limits for a cassette. I had to boost the levels from the original cassette considerably, which adds noise. So, bottom line is, it's never going to sound as good as a finished studio mix, no matter what you do.

But, you could definately lay down clean drums under the existing beat and that would increase the apparent sound quality. Drums are layed on top of each other all the time in hip hop production. Then it's just a mater of laying in the samples and cuts. I think the "hooo" sample is custom done for the track. That's a problem.

There are a couple of other threads on this if you do a search. I don't think all of the sample sources have ever been put together.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:22 PM
Micodin Micodin is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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Originally Posted by Sir SkratchaLot View Post
The good thing about that mix is that it's just a beat and acapella. That means adding samples is pretty easy. They'll multi-track in with the raw mix fine. The bad thing is that the quality on the raw mix is rough, and it was dubbed off 1/4" tape onto cassette without any attempt to bring the headroom to normal limits for a cassette. I had to boost the levels from the original cassette considerably, which adds noise. So, bottom line is, it's never going to sound as good as a finished studio mix, no matter what you do.

But, you could definately lay down clean drums under the existing beat and that would increase the apparent sound quality. Drums are layed on top of each other all the time in hip hop production. Then it's just a mater of laying in the samples and cuts. I think the "hooo" sample is custom done for the track. That's a problem.

There are a couple of other threads on this if you do a search. I don't think all of the sample sources have ever been put together.

I agree with most of this.

But alas you can't polish a turd. And by this I do not mean the song is shit, but the sound quality is. No matter how much you boost levels and enhance the original song it's still going to have that hiss and a chorus that is pretty much hiss and vocals that are barely there.

Yes, you can layer drums. But that is pretty much going to give you louder drums and burry the vox down even lower. It's like tug of war between the instrumental and the vocal tracks.

The cuts would be the easiest thing to do.

The ho's would have to be recreated by you and your mates.

To do a "recreation" like you asked. I stand by my statement that you need the vocal stems and the music stems to do a proper mix. I'm pretty much sure that those are either lost in someone's storage or more likely gone forever.

As Sir SkratchaLot said previously... bottom line is, it's never going to sound as good as a finished studio mix, no matter what you do.
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:35 PM
Turchinator Turchinator is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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Originally Posted by FLO MASTER View Post
why wouldnt anyone not trust me? afterall, my doc was the beastie boys doc.
you're still talking about this?
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  #26  
Old 03-09-2012, 08:43 PM
cj hood cj hood is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

Dustin sold me the PB demos in the 90s for like a $100 and I sold copies to make my money back...



thank you Adam.

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Old 03-10-2012, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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P.S. Don't Be A Dick

I'm sorry, it did read back extremely dickish so really I am sorry.
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:28 PM
ClarenceAlabama ClarenceAlabama is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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What'choo talkin' bout Willis? You have some inside scoop I'd love to hear about?
No, i don't have any inside scoop, but I'd be willing to bet the Beasties know about the best Beastie fan sites around: beastiemixes.com, beastiemania.com, and mictomic.com
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2012, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

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you're still talking about this?



STILL PRAYIN' FOR YAUCH

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  #30  
Old 03-24-2012, 06:52 AM
cj hood cj hood is offline
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Default Re: Desperado : Tougher Than Leather Mix recreation

a friend of mine, who i didn't even know was a beastie head, posted Desperado from TTL on his FB page. his friend responded and said his uncle was an extra in the movie cuz they used his limo service.....that's an interview waiting to happen.



thank you Adam.

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